SAC'D Vet Auction Commentary

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by keepers

I don't understand the lack of limits comments, isn't there a minimum requirement of 13 IOPs and 9 IDPs? Doesn't this have to be met by the time of the end of the auction? How is it an advantage to have to cut someone to meet these requirements and stay under the cap?

The advantages?

1. You get to evaluate multiple players through training camps before choosing the player you want to dump.
2. Inflation will cause a shaking out "adjustment" period extending into the start of the season as the market adjusts back to normal when roster minimums kick in - the large amount of player movement will allow those that dump stashed players access to quality FAs to fill their empty slots.
3. You help to create an inflated market that will screw up strategies of owners you know to be more fiscally conservative.
4. You create a general confusion about prices that allows experienced IDP owners an advantage over newbies in the first few years.

The simple fact is we are working with a skewed market because we are not requiring teams to meet roster minimums during our inaugural auction. I only see an issue because this is the inaugural auction, I don't think there is any reason to change this rule for the future. The market will adjust itself back in a couple of years, there is no doubt. We just could have come alot closer to establishing realistic salary figures in the beginning if we would have required teams to meet minimums during this initial auction.

[Liquid Swords]

nice explanation Jake

....but you guys had to ruin my "play dumb" strategy. oh well, off to plan D.

[keepers]

For what it is worth here are my 2 cents on the advantages.

Originally Posted by Mutts

The advantages?

1. You get to evaluate multiple players through training camps before choosing the player you want to dump.

Since the players that are going for over inflated values are studs and have a proven track record don't see how this is a benefit to the owners of those players. If anything it is those that are fiscally more responsible and are getting numerous players, can evaluate players in training camps before deciding who to dump. Also, when higher priced players are dumped it is an advantage to those who have cap space as they will get them on the cheap.

2. Inflation will cause a shaking out "adjustment" period extending into the start of the season as the market adjusts back to normal when roster minimums kick in - the large amount of player movement will allow those that dump stashed players access to quality FAs to fill their empty slots.

??? ... considering the cap hit they will be taking by dumping high price players, owners who have been more fiscally responsible will still have more $$ available to bid on those quality FAs. Also, as mentioned before, those dumped players are now going to go for bargain prices, if you had to dump them you obviously can't afford to pick them again.

I suppose you could free up a ton of cap space if you had a 3000 CB player get injured in training camp but is this really going to help since you no longer have that player and if you had a surplus at that position in the 1st place you had to have taken some hits at other positions.

3. You help to create an inflated market that will screw up strategies of owners you know to be more fiscally conservative.

In every auction and every draft there are teams with different strategies. There are those that like high price players (a studs and duds theory) and there are those who look for bargains. Knowing this is always the case how does it affect your strategy ... you are upset that you didn't get some guys at prices you wanted them at?

4. You create a general confusion about prices that allows experienced IDP owners an advantage over newbies in the first few years.

So do you feel that IDP prices are inflated or deflated? In general it seems like the issue surrounds IOP players, not IDP players as some people are not happy that they didn't get the RBs they wanted at bargain prices.

The simple fact is we are working with a skewed market because we are not requiring teams to meet roster minimums during our inaugural auction. I only see an issue because this is the inaugural auction, I don't think there is any reason to change this rule for the future. The market will adjust itself back in a couple of years, there is no doubt. We just could have come alot closer to establishing realistic salary figures in the beginning if we would have required teams to meet minimums during this initial auction.

In the end we have to meet a roster minimum of 13 IOPs and 9 IDPs, if teams have to cut players to meet those requirements that is to the benefit to those teams that have cap room available.

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by keepers

For what it is worth here are my 2 cents on the advantages.

In all of this, you freely admit that the market will be going through an adjustment period in the future because of unrealistic bidding now. That is my entire point. I believe in markets, and know that the market will eventually rule and of course nothing is "ruined". I just think, and I'm not sure anyone disagrees, that we could have created a situation where salaries were closer to true value now - instead of waiting a year or two for everything to shake out. I think it would have been more advantageous for the league to go that route. For instance we could have then had more ground to stand on when evaluating various rookie salaries, etc. next off-season. As it is now, we are going to have to wait at least 2 years before we make decisions regarding salaries.

I think top IDP prices are deflated, personally. But that is nothing more than a hunch based upon what I think is the growing value of TEs in the Frenzy.

Again let me be clear. I've known the game from the beginning - no whining here about not getting players. As far as I'm concerned, when a player crosses the price threshold I have he benefits me by hurting the acquiring team. I simply think it would have helped out the league if we took a few steps to bring salaries as close as possible to true market value in our inaugural draft.

This is all just idle chatter and no one is looking for a change (that I know of). I'm just voicing my opinion because it was brought up for discussion yesterday.

[keepers]

There seems to be some sort of perception that there is an advantage to being the owners who are getting overpriced players. I just don't understand the logic behind this.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Not to change the subject, but I have noticed a new phenomenon. It seems that anytime someone bumps a thread not long before the bid is set to expire, the bumper issues an apology. Almost, as if, there was something wrong with the practice.

I just found it curious.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Mutts

In all of this, you freely admit that the market will be going through an adjustment period in the future because of unrealistic bidding now. That is my entire point. I believe in markets, and know that the market will eventually rule and of course nothing is "ruined". I just think, and I'm not sure anyone disagrees, that we could have created a situation where salaries were closer to true value now - instead of waiting a year or two for everything to shake out. I think it would have been more advantageous for the league to go that route. For instance we could have then had more ground to stand on when evaluating various rookie salaries, etc. next off-season. As it is now, we are going to have to wait at least 2 years before we make decisions regarding salaries.

I think top IDP prices are deflated, personally. But that is nothing more than a hunch based upon what I think is the growing value of TEs in the Frenzy.

Again let me be clear. I've known the game from the beginning - no whining here about not getting players. As far as I'm concerned, when a player crosses the price threshold I have he benefits me by hurting the acquiring team. I simply think it would have helped out the league if we took a few steps to bring salaries as close as possible to true market value in our inaugural draft.

This is all just idle chatter and no one is looking for a change (that I know of). I'm just voicing my opinion because it was brought up for discussion yesterday.

Well said, not sure I agree with everything, but you make some very good comments. One of the reasons I am going to enjoy playing in this league, the diversity here!! :rockon

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by keepers

There seems to be some sort of perception that there is an advantage to being the owners who are getting overpriced players. I just don't understand the logic behind this.

The advantage I see is in the RFA process next year. You sign the studs for one year, then RFA them. Chances are prices will have adjusted so you won't be paying as much, and you can then match and sign them for a longer term. Maybe not the best of strategies, but one that I am planning on using. Even though it appears I am getting a lot of the blame for starting the overpricing of players, I still believe I got the best deal in LT at 5500, in fact I was willing to go even higher, I just feel he is worth it. Since then, I have backed off on bidding up other players, until I got Clayton. But at that point I felt if I didn't get at least one stud WR, I wasn't going to, so went into panic mode.....ok, rambled enough..just a little glimsp of the :burt mind

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Not to change the subject, but I have noticed a new phenomenon. It seems that anytime someone bumps a thread not long before the bid is set to expire, the bumper issues an apology. Almost, as if, there was something wrong with the practice.

I just found it curious.

Sorry....

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Not that there is anything wrong with it but I know when I am about to get a player and they get bumped right before the sale time I wish that the person had bumped earlier. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes me wonder why someone would wait 23.5 hours to make up their mind. Since I feel that way I felt I should apologize for basically doing the same thing to someone else.

Mostly just to be polite I suppose.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

Not that there is anything wrong with it but I know when I am about to get a player and they get bumped right before the sale time I wish that the person had bumped earlier. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it makes me wonder why someone would wait 23.5 hours to make up their mind. Since I feel that way I felt I should apologize for basically doing the same thing to someone else.

Mostly just to be polite I suppose.

Sometimes you have a bid on a player, and he goes beyond what you are willing to pay, so you jump over to another player that is still reasonably priced, but only has an hour left. Just one excuse I have. I really don't like having high bid on a number of players at same position if I only want one, unless both are reasonably priced. But those are few and far between, or at least after 25 bids have took them beyond it.....

[randilover]

Weird weekend. Only one Saturday bid, and no one else has made a peep. Odd considering what it was like the past couple of weeks.

[Nittany Dodgers]

OK people, lets see some nominations this morning. By my count we are missing 9 nominations.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

OK people, lets see some nominations this morning. By my count we are missing 9 nominations.

I count 7 missing nominations, and of those 7, 4 of them are not required to nominate any further players (Pitbulls, Gunslingers, Floyds, and Subzero).

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

OK people, lets see some nominations this morning. By my count we are missing 9 nominations.

I would like to, but it seems like all my nominations last for about 10 days. Maybe I'll be able to nominate another offensive player this evening. It still may be a few days before I can nominate another defensive player though.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

I count 7 missing nominations, and of those 7, 4 of them are not required to nominate any further players (Pitbulls, Gunslingers, Floyds, and Subzero).

Ahh, forgot some people have reached the 20 nomination plateau. I'll check for the threads I'm missing.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Ahh, forgot some people have reached the 20 nomination plateau. I'll check for the threads I'm missing.

The following niminations are required at this time:

Bloomington Eco Warriors (Mutts) - 7 IOP's, 9 IDP's Needs to nominate an IOP
Chagrin Falls DMKM Snow Goons (Rami) - 9 IOP's, 9 IDP's Needs to nominate an IOP or an IDP
Bay Area Bloodsuckers (FLAxWLESS) - 10 IOP's, 9 IDP's Needs to nominate an IOP or an IDP

[The Immortal Ramirez]

sorry...working this morning. will post shortly.

[randilover]

Didn't Donald Driver sell? He's still on the FA list on the site. Not to be picky, but I've been using that list extensively to know who's still available and I keep thinking he'll be dropping off the list sometime soon.

I realize some of the guys will be on the list while still nominated, but I'm pretty sure Driver sold last week.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by randilover

Didn't Donald Driver sell? He's still on the FA list on the site. Not to be picky, but I've been using that list extensively to know who's still available and I keep thinking he'll be dropping off the list sometime soon.

I realize some of the guys will be on the list while still nominated, but I'm pretty sure Driver sold last week.

Driver sold Monday morning. I update the League Website every couple days. It's not automatically updated everytime a guy sells, there's manual work involved.

:Sorry.

Originally Posted by Preds

Driver sold Monday morning. I update the League Website every couple days. It's not automatically updated everytime a guy sells, there's manual work involved.

:Sorry.

:BS, reds, :tool and a quit your and :bitchand get it updated please.

:thanks

:skippy

:smooch

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Skippy the One Eyed Beagle

:BS, reds, :tool and a quit your and :bitchand get it updated please.

:thanks

:skippy

:smooch

:yawn

[randilover]

Sorry, thought he sold last week and you were just being a slacker... :he said as he pushes up his glasses and realizes as a PC paean and has no understanding of what goes on behind the scenes:

Originally Posted by randilover

Sorry, thought he sold last week and you were just being a slacker... :he said as he pushes up his glasses and realizes as a PC paean and has no understanding of what goes on behind the scenes:

ulls back curtain and looks behind the scenes and sees a bunch of little tine people that live inside the computer that run around and do all your computing needs:

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Preds

screw the 36 Chambers... and folks say I'm the one driving up prices!

but you're probably just jealous because I've conserved my cap and now have the ability to pay these backup RBs and #2 WRs what they are really worth since i wasn't willing to pay those over inflated top-tier RB and WR prices early. :burt got a helluva deal on Pittman in my opinion, it's just unfortunate that I had my money elsewhere at the time.


...oh yeah by the way :burt that's the second time you've snuck a bid in on a RB I was looking at when I had my money elsewhere. nice work, damn you.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

but you're probably just jealous because I've conserved my cap and now have the ability to pay these backup RBs and #2 WRs what they are really worth since i wasn't willing to pay those over inflated top-tier RB and WR prices early. :burt got a helluva deal on Pittman in my opinion, it's just unfortunate that I had my money elsewhere at the time.


...oh yeah by the way :burt that's the second time you've snuck a bid in on a RB I was looking at when I had my money elsewhere. nice work, damn you.

For the record Pat, just in case you took it the wrong way, my post in the TJ Duckett thread was meant as a joke.

i.e. I bid 636 and instead of using your "up from the 36 Chambers" reference, I did said "screw the 36 Chambers". Again, I have no idea about what "36 Chambers" is all about, none (or few) of us have seen the movie apparently, and thus don't get the reference.

As for me stating that you're driving up prices, you cannot say you haven't done it as much as the next guy. I was just trying to elicit a comedic response. Hope you took it that way. If not, I apologize.

[Liquid Swords]

i got a nice chuckle out of the 636 reply and even more of a chuckle in that i thought it was frustrating you. it's only natural to drive up the price but i only do so long as it's within what i'm willing to pay. the only real "price driving" i've done was with Urlacher but that was my lil' cous' christopher while i was in NC and he stuck me with him.

:cheers to the joys and frustrations of auction drafting

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

i got a nice chuckle out of the 636 reply and even more of a chuckle in that i thought it was frustrating you. it's only natural to drive up the price but i only do so long as it's within what i'm willing to pay. the only real "price driving" i've done was with Urlacher but that was my lil' cous' christopher while i was in NC and he stuck me with him.

:cheers to the joys and frustrations of auction drafting

Nah, I expected some action on fatboy Duckett, though he's nearing a peak. I wasn't upset or frustrated at all, I was laughing actually. Sent an IM to randilover that you had bumped him, something alog th lines of "just like that Duckett is nearing 600 lol" (this was after your 1st bid).

[Preds]

Originally Posted by randilover

Sorry, thought he sold last week and you were just being a slacker... :he said as he pushes up his glasses and realizes as a PC paean and has no understanding of what goes on behind the scenes:

BTW, I updated the website this eveing. It's current through all of todays sales.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Is it me, or is the sound coming from the LaBrandon Toefield thread the bottom of the barrel being scraped?