Timeline and Draft

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Hi Guys,

I know we are in the off-season hibernation mode but I had worked on the following revision to the rookie salary scale (it probably will not format too well). Last year pick 1.1 at QB would have been $900, RB would have been $1200, WR would have been $800, TE would have been $350 and kickers were $150. I modified the last couple of picks in each round to try and bring down the top price for QB’s, RB’s and WR’s (TE’s went up slightly and K’s remained the same more or less). These are not really major changes but by lowering these numbers some (and leaving the developmental cap at its scheduled $2750 for 2003) I think we can achieve a little better balance between rookie salaries and veteran salaries.

Please feel free to let me know you thoughts. Also, what is the off-season time line looking like? When are RFA’s due and when will bidding begin, etc.?

Rd-Pk-QB-RB-WR-TE-K
1-1-850-1000-700-400-150
1-2-825-970-680-390-150
1-3-800-940-660-380-150
1-4-775-910-640-370-150
1-5-750-880-620-360-150
1-6-725-850-600-350-150
1-7-700-820-580-340-150
1-8-675-790-560-330-150
1-9-650-760-540-320-150
1-10-625-730-520-310-150
1-11-600-700-500-300-150
1-12-575-670-480-290-150
2-1-550-640-460-280-125
2-2-525-610-440-270-125
2-3-500-580-420-260-125
2-4-475-550-400-250-125
2-5-450-520-380-240-125
2-6-425-490-360-230-125
2-7-400-460-340-220-125
2-8-375-430-320-210-125
2-9-350-400-300-200-125
2-10-325-370-280-190-125
2-11-300-340-260-180-125
2-12-275-310-240-170-125
3-1-250-280-220-160-100
3-2-225-250-200-150-100
3-3-200-220-180-140-100
3-4-175-190-160-130-100
3-5-150-160-140-120-100
3-6-125-130-120-110-100
3-7-125-130-120-110-100
3-8-125-130-120-110-100
3-9-100-100-100-100-100
3-10-100-100-100-100-100
3-11-100-100-100-100-100
3-12-100-100-100-100-100

[Nittany Dodgers]

Personally, I don't think a lowering of the RB scale is justified. 1000 for the top running back? Granted, there hasn't been a can't miss no doubt #1 running back last year, or this year (depnding on how things shake out), but is it really a fair price for the next time there is an Edge James, and Rickey Williams in the same draft? After five years, the salary would max out at less than 1500cbs. Looking at the number of backs that are over 2000 (granted, not money wisely spent always, but that is the market price), I think 1000 is a little low.

The only suggestion I would have for lowering the scale would be to make rookie salaries increase at a faster rate (20%). This way, they could be cheaper their first and second year with the lowered scale, but if you think you are drafting a can't miss player and want to lock him up long term, then you have to pay for it.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Dodgers, the numbers I threw out were just an idea. I know that we had a lot of discussion about the salaries being too high. I would think the 20% idea is a good one but it might be tough to administer.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Matt, I know you're just throwing them out there, and I'm just telling you I don't like them.

I think we have a few different opinions on the rookie scale. I know a portion think its too high, and some want to wait and test it out another year or too. Personally, I think we should wait at least one more year to see how it works. I know that the draft was very balanced as far as the number of different positions that went in the first round. That may have been an anomoly, but I think it deserves at least one more test.

Of course I won't stop you from lobbying to change the scale, just making my voice of dissent heard.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I was not trying to lobby one way or the other. I figured it was kind of slow and it could not hurt to get some discussion started. I can live with it the way it is now but would not be against trying to improve if that is what everyone wanted to do.

[Preds]

Off-Season Hibernation ... that's EXACTLY RIGHT!!

I know personally I need a good month break before jumping back into things hardcore.

I'll be getting into Brian's rule modicifcations more towards the middle or later part of this month. Haven't heard from Jake in a while (he usually takes off a couple months after the season, so no surprise there).

I'd say in March we'll start some votes on some of the rule suggestions, and get the 03 season underway in April or so.

[Ypsilanti Undead]

Originally posted by Parkwood Predators
As for changing the rookie scale, I think it's fine as is and deserves another season or two to fully evaluate it's impact.

I share this opinion. I also think it's unfair to change the salary value for picks that have already been traded -- I would have been less willing to part with my 1st rounder if it were to be more cap-friendly.

So really I think any changes to the scale should be announced a full year in advance. (Now there's an opinion I expect people to disagree with!)

I don't have a problem either way on this, but I don't agree with the Dodgers point regarding "but is it really a fair price for the next time there is an Edge James, and Rickey Williams in the same draft? "

Somehow (and I wasn't here, so I don't know how it happened), non-market-values already exists. When I look at the price of Deshawn Foster (1140) and Will Green (1200) I can't even imagine how these studs didn't go for anything close to market vaule:

Priest Holmes: 462.
Travis Henry: 110
Aaron Brooks: 385
Duce McAllister: 110
Mike Vick: 110
Shaun Alexander: 110

If the league allowed these players to go for these contracts, then I don't see a big deal with slightly reducing the rookie salaries.

Some of these players are coming off of their initial contracts and should go for market, but others are locked in at incredibly low prices with no way for them to hold out ;)

I'm good with whatever you guys work out, just wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Thanks and have a great off season everyone.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally posted by Hudson Valley Undead GM



So really I think any changes to the scale should be announced a full year in advance. (Now there's an opinion I expect people to disagree with!)

Actually, that's an extremly valid point. I agree, and think you are correct that we cannot change the value of picks that have already traded hands.

As for the Llamas issue with the current cheap running backs, I wasn't here either, but my understanding was they the league used some outside source to value players, and then had a serpentine draft to select players of the various contract values. Of course, backups then (McAllister, Alexander) wen're backups for long, and now they are underpriced studs. This will all change and correct itself when these players go on the free, or limited free market.

Look at this past off season, Lamont Jordan went for what, 1400? And we think that the #1 overall RB is worth significantly less than that? I don't think so. I think the rookie scale should be somewhat in line with the free market, and not be a huge discount.

[Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers]

Regarding the cheap players(ie Deuce, SAlex, Vick) in our first year we used FBGs projected salary cap numbers based on expected performance that year(2001). At the time Deuce was behind Ricky and SAlex was behind Watters so their projected numbers and subsequent cap # was low as they were not expected to do much that year.

Anyhoo, i'd like to chime in on the rookie salary scale. The only thing I really dont like about it is the straight line decline it has in the values of the rookies. The top rated rookies are IMO set fairly but I think 2nd and 3rd round rookies are overpriced. In the NFL the top few picks get high salaries but after that it drops off fairly steeply. Much faster than a straight line decline. In this sense sometimes I'd rather not draft a low rated player because their salary is still too high. I'd rather wait to see if they go on the FA market and try to get them cheaper that way. Well that's my 2 cents on the rookie salaries. I would agree with the point that we would need at least 1 year to let rookie salary changes be put into effect as teams have already traded their picks etc.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I felt the same way about rookie WRs last year. Why draft them (past the first round, that is) when you can get them WAY CHEAPER on the free agent market later?

I like the idea about changing the salaries in 2-3 round picks... anyone else?

Keeping the salaries the way they are now IMO makes it more realistic. What I mean by that is, Priest Holmes signs a 3 year contract with KC for saaaay $2 mil/year. In our league, someone signs him for $460/year. That season or the next, he BLOWS up. Unless KC feels obligated to immediately renegotiate his contract right then and there, they can wait until his current contract runs out, and then worry about re-signing him (which the next time around will be a HUGE increase). The exact same thing happens in our league.

One thing I was thinking of - the whole "not being able to re-negotiate" with a player's contract once it is signed. I was thinking something like say you have Priest Holmes. He has 1 year left at $460/year. That owner is worried he'll lose him after that season. So he decides to re-negotiate. He can add say, one year to his contract, but the price is not $460 for that extra year, but 3x that (or some larger amount). So say for 2003 Holmes would go for $460 and in 2004 (because of the new year tacked onto his contract) he would be $1380 (or whatever).

??

[Flaxwless]

I think my views on this have been expressed at some point or another. I believe that the rookie slaries especially the first round RBs are fine and if there's going to be any change it should be to lower the salaries.

However I'm more than willing to compromise and keep the 1st round salaries the same but I agree with BDSC and I wouldn't mind lowering the 2nd and 3rd round players.

As for Detroit's idea on renegotiation it's not a bad idea but I think it would only keep the aformentioned, Cheap STUD RBs on their teams for a year longer without any real market value. Maybe some rule where anyone signed for over $300 or $400 can rengotiate. Just a thought if such a rule were actually voted in.

I doubt that would ever pass though as we have the FA wire which would be used to set their salary.

[Ypsilanti Undead]

I'll throw my hat in for lowering the scale for rounds 2-3.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

If there's going to be any renegotions... it seems logical to use some kind of "restricted free agent" bidding process... not sure how this would play out, as we wouldn't want other teams jacking up the contract with no intention of signing... but I'm of the opinion that this will be a better league once the innagural-year contracts have all expired and we're on a legitimate "market-driven" salary scale.

[Flaxwless]

Okay. Now just wait 3 years for Shuan Alexander to hit the market.

[Ypsilanti Undead]

Originally posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi
I'm of the opinion that this will be a better league once the innagural-year contracts have all expired and we're on a legitimate "market-driven" salary scale.

Seconded! These first few seasons have an asterisk next to them, IMO.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Seconded! These first few seasons have an asterisk next to them, IMO.

Shhhhh.... don't tell Mike! He's been trying to put an asterisk on this season ever since the waiver-wire fiasco of championship week!

[Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers]

I'd be willing to make this the last year of S.Alexander's contract. Just so when I win the trophy I wont get an **** next to my name ;)

[Preds]

Originally posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi


Shhhhh.... don't tell Mike! He's been trying to put an asterisk on this season ever since the waiver-wire fiasco of championship week!

Trust me Jim, in my mind there is DEFINATELY an Asterisk next to Kyle's name on the trophy... I don't give up without a fight !!!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I'm with you, BDSC... you can fill the trophy from top to bottom with asterisks, as long as you put my name on it & send it out here to the islands (where it belongs)... that's fine with me!

Looking forward to being the one Mike's frustrated at following NEXT YEAR'S Championship!!! ;) :p

[Flaxwless]

Don't think you need to release Shaun early Bao. It was good drafting, you did take him early, round 3 or 4 maybe. So you're reapin the benifits now. S'all good.

[Jersey]

Speaking of the trophy..(without the asterisks)
when does that get shipped to New Jersey?????

[Preds]

Originally posted by Jersey Toxic Waste
Speaking of the trophy..(without the asterisks)
when does that get shipped to New Jersey?????

NEVER!!!

I told you Kyle, it's already sitting on top of my TV hehe!

[Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers]

Originally posted by Bay Area Bloodsucking Insects
Don't think you need to release Shaun early Bao. It was good drafting, you did take him early, round 3 or 4 maybe. So you're reapin the benifits now. S'all good.

Yeah, I did draft him VERY early for a backup. Round 4 or 5 that year. I knew he was gonna be a stud. I watched him one Monday night for 1 series and saw he could be great if he were the man. I never planned on him paying off that early. I planned on him sitting on my bench at least 1 year, maybe 2. Back then we didnt even have a Developmental squad.

Anyway Frank, when u gonna come out to Fremont to play Clix? We got approved as a game club by Wizkids so we'll be able to get Prize support once a month. Maybe more. I have a flyer I can email you, what's your addy?

[Flaxwless]

Cool Joe.

I'd love to stop by the shop to play some Clix but I'm busy on the weekdays. Maybe on this three day weekend if you guys get together I can drop by with my friends.

just e-mail me at

flaxwless@attbi.com