RETRACTED (CUT QB Daunte Culpepper, MIN)

[Liquid Swords]

might as well take the hard cap hit before the soft cap kicks in

[Preds]

I don't think this should be allowed as a Hard Cap cut because week 8 wasn't over until the Monday night game finished early Tuesday, and you STARTED Daunte this past weekend.

Cutting him on Monday would be cutting your starter after the fact with the games not over. I don't think it should be allowed. In fact in SACD, I advised another owner that doing so wouldn't be allowed IMO. Picture starting a guy on a Thursday game, then cutting him Saturday... would that be allowed... I'd say no. The starters are frozen on the roster until the games finish for each particular week.

This is the 1st time we've had the 31st fall on a Monday, it's quirky, but IMO the fairest thing to do is not allow Hard Cap cuts on the 31st when players were started the previous day.

This should be considered a Tuesday (Nov 1) release and a Soft Cap hit IMO.

:Sorry

[Liquid Swords]

pretty weak, imo. also nowhere in the releasing players section of the rules do i see anything about this.

but if that is the case then i retract this cut

I'm not in the frenzy league, but as an outsider I agree with Preds on this one. I actually assumed this would be the case in SACD.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

pretty weak, imo. also nowhere in the releasing players section of the rules do i see anything about this.

but if that is the case then i retract this cut

Pat,

Take a step back and look at the issue without a tainted eye. What's weak about my argument?

You're attempting to use a guy, and then cut him before the week is complete. I just can't logically process that. Had he been on your bench, I wouldn't have a problem, but he started for you week 8,went down to injury, and now you want to cut him after the fact to avoid the Soft Cap before the week is complete.

Sorry, I just see no logical basis to allow this. It would set a woefully bad precident IMO.

I also can't logically see letting you take a zero in CPep's place and allowing the cut, as that impacts scores, and would be essentially changing a starter after the fact.

[Liquid Swords]

yeah, whatever.

i never said anything about "changing a starter after the fact"...don't even know how you pulled that one out of thin air.

it's just a shame that you really don't get a "full" 8 weeks this year just because the 31st fell on a Monday and the game didn't end until shortly after midnight...but i'm understanding. i'd like to propose a change on future rules should this happen again where a dealine period ends before the NFL week actually ends to extend it another day.

i'm just saying in light of this fact that i am retracting this cut.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

yeah, whatever.

i never said anything about "changing a starter after the fact"...don't even know how you pulled that one out of thin air.

it's just a shame that you really don't get a "full" 8 weeks this year just because the 31st fell on a Monday and the game didn't end until shortly after midnight...but i'm understanding. i'd like to propose a change on future rules should this happen again where a dealine period ends before the NFL week actually ends to extend it another day.

i'm just saying in light of this fact that i am retracting this cut.

I was saying that by cutting a starter on Monday before the week was complete you'd be essentially taking them out of your lineup.

For example, in FFLM, if I made the cut on Monday the 31st, he'd be taken off your roster week 8, and not processed as a starter week 8. Week 9 does not start until Tuesday Nov 1.

So to cut a guy on Monday, you'd be cutting a guy while still in the week 8 phase.

[Liquid Swords]

you can do that?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

you can do that?

?

Yes, FFLM process cuts by date if you set it to.

[Liquid Swords]

so i could keep the cut in the hard cap time frame and just not receive the points for culpepper this past week?

if not, i don't get what you're talking about.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

so i could keep the cut in the hard cap time frame and just not receive the points for culpepper this past week?

if not, i don't get what you're talking about.

No you cannot make the cut week 8 is what I'm saying because you started him.

He's in your week 8 lineup.

I was trying to say that by cutting him on Monday, while still in the week 8 phase, you'd be essentially changing your starting lkineup after the fact. And regardless of whether or not you won or lost (I haven't even looked) I can't see allowing you to take a zero so a cut could go through before the deadline AFTER you already started the guy.

I was trying to explain WHY the move shouldn't be allowed and show an example of what would happen with FFLM if it were allowed (which again, IMO, is not a legal move), I guess I'm not speaking clearly enough.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I know we did not foresee this and I can see both sides but you know how I feel about rules. If it is not written, then it should be allowed. I know that many take the opposite tact but in my mind Pat is fine with making the cut whether or not C-Pepp started this week or not. Just my two cents and I expect to be in the minority (since on these rules issues I normally am).

[Liquid Swords]

as i see it there is nowhere in the rules (that i can find anyway) about cutting players in this situation and how i violated a rule...i just figured that my team was done for the week anyway. also i don't see what the problem would be that since we just now realized the implications of having the 31st fall on a Monday and the MNF game not being finalized until just after midnight, why we couldn't extend the deadline by a day....frenzy and sacd...thus essentially having an actual 8 full weeks instead of a shortened 8 weeks.

either way we'd be adding a statement to the rules that doesn't exist anyway

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

as i see it there is nowhere in the rules (that i can find anyway) about cutting players in this situation and how i violated a rule...i just figured that my team was done for the week anyway. also i don't see what the problem would be that since we just now realized the implications of having the 31st fall on a Monday and the MNF game not being finalized until just after midnight, why we couldn't extend the deadline by a day....frenzy and sacd...thus essentially having an actual 8 full weeks instead of a shortened 8 weeks.

either way we'd be adding a statement to the rules that doesn't exist anyway

The Hard Cap and Soft cap periods have ALWAYS had a hard deadline. Hard Cap April 1 through October 31st. Soft Cap November 1 through March 31st. Doesn't matter which days they fall on, and how many NFL weeks are played or not played. The number of NFL weeks has NOTHING to do with it. Sometimes the NFL satrts the season later, sometimes earlier.

If I process the cut on the 31st in FFLM, he gets cut from your starting lineup week 8. That can't happen since you CANNOT change a starter once the game has started or been played. The only way to process it inside FFLM is on TUESDAY which is November 1st and week 9.

Sorry, I just don't buy your weak argument. You started the guy, and now after the fact you want to cut him during the SAME WEEK you started him to avoid the cap hit in 2006. We do this, and next thing you know folks will cut guys used in Thursday games on Fridays and whatnot. It's bullshit, and you know it.

It's illogical, and wrong IMO.

Get over it. Ride out Duante's contract or take the soft cap hit.

If you were so intent on cutting him before the Hard Cap expired you should not have started him. Sorry.

[Nittany Dodgers]

FWIW, I agree with Mike's assessment. IMO, starting lineups are locked once the games start and you can't drop a player during a game. Wether or not that is specifically spelled out in the rules, that seems to me to be one of those things that is just assumed. I guess we all know what happens when we assume. However, since the rules don't specifically address what would happen if you did drop a player that was started during the games (ie, what happens to the players points, do you get them or not?) it would seem to me that it is not allowed. Also, since all other transactions are frozen during the time period of the games (no free agents are signed, no trades can happen) it seems consistent that players could not be dropped as well.

That's just my take.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

FWIW, I agree with Mike's assessment. IMO, starting lineups are locked once the games start and you can't drop a player during a game. Wether or not that is specifically spelled out in the rules, that seems to me to be one of those things that is just assumed. I guess we all know what happens when we assume. However, since the rules don't specifically address what would happen if you did drop a player that was started during the games (ie, what happens to the players points, do you get them or not?) it would seem to me that it is not allowed. Also, since all other transactions are frozen during the time period of the games (no free agents are signed, no trades can happen) it seems consistent that players could not be dropped as well.

That's just my take.

Hell is freezing over as we speak...

[Liquid Swords]

oh well, whatever, nevermind
hello, hello, hello, how low?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I'm not even on the rules committee... so my opinion doesn't mean didly... but I agree with Mike's position. Active players should not be able to be cut until all games are over. I kind of see it as the same principle involved in bidding prior to Monday night at midnight... we can post bids, but they don't take effect until the start of Tuesday. Same would be true for cuts on ACTIVE players.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

I'm not even on the rules committee... so my opinion doesn't mean didly... but I agree with Mike's position. Active players should not be able to be cut until all games are over. I kind of see it as the same principle involved in bidding prior to Monday night at midnight... we can post bids, but they don't take effect until the start of Tuesday. Same would be true for cuts on ACTIVE players.

:GoodPost

[Liquid Swords]

right. i'm not disagreeing on those points. my beef is that nowhere is the end of a week defined. but now i know that it's "implied" to be after the final second of the final game of the week has expired.

in your case on bidding, there is a finite time. in this case, the end of the week is not finite, it is fluctuating based on the end of the final nfl game of the week.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

right. i'm not disagreeing on those points. my beef is that nowhere is the end of a week defined. but now i know that it's "implied" to be after the final second of the final game of the week has expired.

in your case on bidding, there is a finite time. in this case, the end of the week is not finite, it is fluctuating based on the end of the final nfl game of the week.

FWIW, I would say the end of the week is Monday at midnight, yes the MNF game is still going on, but realistically, any transaction processed at 12:01am and beyond is on Tuesday, which is the beginning of the new week in FFLM and elsewhere.

While FFLM does track moves and whatnot by day, it does not do so by hour.

I'm comfortable in saying that lineups are frozen Sunday and Mondays (Thurseday/Friday/Saturday games being somewhat of an exception with only the players involved in those games frozen).

[Liquid Swords]

OK, but what if a MNF game ends at 11:40pm? Or what if there is no Monday night game (ie, a hurricane moves it back to Sunday night)?

Does it still end at midnight on Monday, even though all the games are officially over?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

OK, but what if a MNF game ends at 11:40pm? Or what if there is no Monday night game (ie, a hurricane moves it back to Sunday night)?

Does it still end at midnight on Monday, even though all the games are officially over?

IMO, for the sake of consistency, a week starts on Tuesday at 12:01am and ends on Monday at 12:00am regardless of the games themselves.

That's how FFLM handles it, and always what I've gone by personally (probably due to using FFLM for so many years).