Popes/Avengers trade

[Popes]

Popes give:

T. Henry (666/1)
K. Curtis (666/2)
2008 2.9 pick

Avengers give 2008 1.8 pick

This trade plus cutting RFAs T. Jones and M. Harrison puts me in compliance after Larry Johnson acquisition.

Avengers to confirm.

Brian, since this is complicated with the LJ acquisition and numerous moves to get under cap, can you confirm that all looks well on the official roster sheet? Avengers and I both calculate compliant #s for both teams.

[Preds]

The numbers on both sides look good in my version of the app.

Nicely executed.

VERY surprised you pulled a 1st rd pick out of those players, particularly in your situation.

[Amish]

Huge move for Popes.


I can't believe that Avengers (being a divisional opponent) would give Popes the out on this one. Basically NO repercussions other than the loss of a measley comp pick.

[Amish]

Originally Posted by Preds

VERY surprised you pulled a 1st rd pick out of those players, particularly in your situation.

Oops.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Amish

Huge move for Popes.


I can't believe that Avengers (being a divisional opponent) would give Popes the out on this one. Basically NO repercussions other than the loss of a measley comp pick.

380 in cap penalties too. But Avengers MAJORLY bailed him out.

No way I'd give more than a late 2nd for those players, particularly in Popes situation.

[Amish]

Especially how high Avengers was on this year's talent in trading up for the 1.6 with Insects.

Major bail out indeed.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Amish

No doubt! That was like a double bonus for Popes. Very nicely done. I now know who to contact when I get myself into a sticky situation. Maybe I should try to pull people from my work into the "fold" so I can trade out of trouble.

I wouldn't go that far as what you're implying there.

At most Popes took advantage of Avengers being new (heck, everyone is fair game and I've done it myself in the past).

Avengers just gotten eaten up by a shark. He'll learn.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Amish

Especially how high Avengers was on this year's talent in trading up for the 1.6 with Insects.

Major bail out indeed.

I think that discussion was before I stepped in for the interim GMship

[Popes]

Thanks for the accusation, Joel.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Confirmed both teams are in compliance.

[Amish]

Originally Posted by Popes

Thanks for the accusation, Joel.

How so, I said HUGE TRADE for you ... It was nicely done. Honestly I was just disappointed that Avengers let you out of the overbids with absolutely no pain. You got LJ, 1.8 for Henry, Curtis, and 2.8 I'd do that EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE if I was you.

[Valley Avengers]

Confirmed, if we can still find what I'm confirming up at the top.

[Valley Avengers]

Not sure where to start defending myself on this.
I still have the 1.6, so I'm still going to get the talent that I want out of this draft.
The 2.9 that he gave me will be a better pick than in any previous draft because the number of comp'd first round draft picks will be dramatically fewer.
Travis Henry will be worth his contract and the draft pick on his own if he just plays every game of this season. I don't care much for Curtis, but his stats from last year were very good - 1100 yds and 6 TDS, even if they did all come in only 3 games.
I think y'all are just pissed that Popes didn't hurt more for it - he did take nearly 400cbs of penalties which is nothing to sneeze at. And he is still right up against the cap, so he'll probably need to make some more moves before the season.

[Popes]

For the record, with all of the crappy RFAs I had available to cut, all I had to do was trade Henry for a draft pick. If not Avengers, someone else had made me an offer for Henry that I would have taken.

I took $400 in penalties rather than $520 by making this particular trade (and I had to give up my starting 3rd WR to do it). I'm still trying to fathom how I apparently went from MASSIVE PAIN to NO PAIN due to this trade.

[Urza's Ragers]

Don't worry about it Popes, they just jealous

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Popes

For the record, with all of the crappy RFAs I had available to cut, all I had to do was trade Henry for a draft pick. If not Avengers, someone else had made me an offer for Henry that I would have taken.

I took $400 in penalties rather than $520 by making this particular trade (and I had to give up my starting 3rd WR to do it). I'm still trying to fathom how I apparently went from MASSIVE PAIN to NO PAIN due to this trade.

I think getting a 1st round pick, when you were up against the wall is why.

Good trade

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Popes

For the record, with all of the crappy RFAs I had available to cut, all I had to do was trade Henry for a draft pick. If not Avengers, someone else had made me an offer for Henry that I would have taken.

I took $400 in penalties rather than $520 by making this particular trade (and I had to give up my starting 3rd WR to do it). I'm still trying to fathom how I apparently went from MASSIVE PAIN to NO PAIN due to this trade.

You got off easy and came out smelling like a rose because Avengers made a BAD deal. He let you off the hook in a big way, and gave you a 1st rd pick to boot.

In light of your situation, had he traded a 2nd for Henry and Curtis, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye. But the 1.8? You just ovvned a noob. You made a shark move, I congratulate you for that (Lord knows I've done it myself in the past). Avengers will have to learn from his mistakes (see Joel a couple years ago). He'll be better for it in the long run. In the short run, you come out way ahead. Again, I applaud you for a shrewd move. Well done.

As for the trade itself, here's my take (not that you care)

Henry is a bum. I won't be at all surprised to see a suspension mentioned again this year. No way I'd give up a mid 1st for him. In a package for a 2nd yes, but not even straight up for a 2nd IMO.

Curtis is intriguing, contrary to Avengers, I kinda like him, but again, wouldn't consider a 1st being anywhere near the ballpark for him. I might have parted with a late 2nd for Curtis alone.

The 2.9 is still virtually worthless. We're still talking a minimum of 19-20 players deep in the draft. The talent generally slips off a LOT between 15 and 18. Good luck with that.

All of the above for the 1.8 does not compute, particularly for your situation, thus the talk of him bailing you out.

Anyhow, I give credit where credit is due, great deal for the Popes, he shrewdly and wisely executed himself out of a huge hole. Bad deal for the Avengers, he'll learn.

[Amish]

I agree that the Popes made a super deal when backed into a corner. And like Ragers said, Yes I am jealous. Jealous for the extra 1st round pick and jealous that I don't have any people that I work with in this league to bounce ideas off of and trade with. We all know that face to face conversations are easier than email or msg boards as the misunderstandings and time delay aren't there.

I also think Henry is a bum and minus 3 games from Curtis last year and he would have 680 yards and 2 TD's.

I was also amazed because of how a division rival let his own 2 time a year opponent make his team better. But who am I to say about good and bad trades. I have sucked in this league for 2 years and made some TERRIBLE trades and moves.

Power to both of you but to Popes, yes I am jealous!

[Liquid Swords]

Wow!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Amish

Yes I am jealous. Jealous for the extra 1st round pick and jealous that I don't have any people that I work with in this league to bounce ideas off of and trade with. We all know that face to face conversations are easier than email or msg boards as the misunderstandings and time delay aren't there.

I mean this in all sincerity: I'm more than happy to be as impartial a sounding board as I can with anyone in this league. Feel free to shoot me a PM or email asking about trades, picks, anything. I play fantasy football because I love it. It just so happens that I've been lucky enough to win the league these past two years. But it's not all about winning to me. If you or anyone else wants to bounce something off me, just ask. Honest!

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

I mean this in all sincerity: I'm more than happy to be as impartial a sounding board as I can with anyone in this league. Feel free to shoot me a PM or email asking about trades, picks, anything. I play fantasy football because I love it. It just so happens that I've been lucky enough to win the league these past two years. But it's not all about winning to me. If you or anyone else wants to bounce something off me, just ask. Honest!

I've asked and received Jim's honest opinion many times over the years, including more than once since I stepped back into Brett's shoes temporarily.

Jim has always given me an impartial, intelligent opinion on players and trades that I've always valued. Definately a good guy to seek opinion from on player values and whatnot. I've sought him out many times over the years in regards to drafting certain players, valuing certain players, or even throwing potential trades he wasn't involved in past him for an outside opinion.

Jim rocks.

[Popes]

I continue to find it fascinating that when Matt was in a box and I suggested that Frank made a mistake in letting him out of the cuts he was going to have to make, all I got was:

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

What do I care how it affects Matt?

Originally Posted by Preds

You're saying he should have looked at Matt's situation and held off so Matt would be forced with a decision on Anderson? Again, why? What would the Insects gain by that? Why would he care about your team or Matt's? He's trying to rebuild his own squad.

But when I'm in a box and Avengers trade with me to build his own squad, he is roundly shouted down with "WHY DID YOU LET HIM OUT OF THE BOX?????" And I get accused of collusion.

Anyway, this deal all comes down to Henry. For those of you who think he's worthless, as always, we'll find out who's right once they hit the field. Personally, I think he's undervalued (and apparently Avengers do, too). If he starts all year, he's a $1000 RB even if he's just OK. If he regains any of his former production, he's a $1500+ RB. At a price of only $666 (which makes him an easy cut if things go wrong). He's much upside, little risk at his price. In fact, there was a 48 hour stretch over the weekend where I was content to cut Parker because I couldn't stand to let Henry go. Mike said he wouldn't be surprised if McGahee matched LJ in 2008, for $1000 less. I wouldn't be surprised if Henry matched McGahee, for $1500 less.

Your opinions are not facts (neither are mine). None of us know what will happen. Last year at least two people thought I was making a big mistake trading for Santonio Holmes (including the loudest person in this thread). So any chance we can reserve judgment a bit before the entire league declares an official raping here?

Also for the record (just so people wouldn't think I was colluding or taking advantage of the new guy), I had Avengers Brian talk the trade over with Dodgers Brian to make sure he got the independent assessment of a league veteran.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Relax. Take a deep breath. In a week or so, no one will remember this trade (okay, maybe when draft day comes up and we get to the 1.08 pick!).

A few people have expressed an opinion about the trade. So be it. There's no league-wide accusation of collusion or rape.

It's just football, folks. ;)

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Popes

I continue to find it fascinating that when Matt was in a box and I suggested that Frank made a mistake in letting him out of the cuts he was going to have to make, all I got was:

But when I'm in a box and Avengers trade with me to build his own squad, he is roundly shouted down with "WHY DID YOU LET HIM OUT OF THE BOX?????" And I get accused of collusion.

WHOA

Relax dude. I don't know where you come off attacking me. If anything I came out and said I DIDN'T think there was any basis for collusion.

As for your Anderson bid on Matt, and Frank bidding on Matt's RFA Wayne, the 2 situations are in no way the same. You were miffed that Frank opened a bid on Wayne, and thus pissed that because of that, Matt would be able match Anderon. Well, why the hell would he care about Anderson? He wanted Wayne, and your bid on Anderson opened the door for him.

Originally Posted by Popes

Anyway, this deal all comes down to Henry. For those of you who think he's worthless, as always, we'll find out who's right once they hit the field. Personally, I think he's undervalued (and apparently Avengers do, too). If he starts all year, he's a $1000 RB even if he's just OK. If he regains any of his former production, he's a $1500+ RB. At a price of only $666 (which makes him an easy cut if things go wrong). He's much upside, little risk at his price. In fact, there was a 48 hour stretch over the weekend where I was content to cut Parker because I couldn't stand to let Henry go. Mike said he wouldn't be surprised if McGahee matched LJ in 2008, for $1000 less. I wouldn't be surprised if Henry matched McGahee, for $1500 less.

Henry is a low life pot smoking rapist. All verified in the courts. He is the scum of the earth. I'll be surprised if Henry survives training camp cuts. He's scum, and his past/present has and will continue to catch up with him. He comes with MAJOR baggage and is little more than a throw in IMO.

Originally Posted by Popes

Your opinions are not facts (neither are mine). None of us know what will happen. Last year at least two people thought I was making a big mistake trading for Santonio Holmes (including the loudest person in this thread). So any chance we can reserve judgment a bit before the entire league declares an official raping here?

You continue to throw darts at me. I haven't thrown a single one at you. So who's the loudmouth in this thread?

Originally Posted by Popes

Also for the record (just so people wouldn't think I was colluding or taking advantage of the new guy), I had Avengers Brian talk the trade over with Dodgers Brian to make sure he got the independent assessment of a league veteran.

OK. So what did the 3rd member of the Minnesota bloc triumverate have to say about the deal?

Jason, apparently you've hopped on board Brian's bus of hatred of me. Whatever. Grow up.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Preds

I wouldn't go that far as what you're implying there.

At most Popes took advantage of Avengers being new (heck, everyone is fair game and I've done it myself in the past).

Avengers just gotten eaten up by a shark. He'll learn.

Bump for the skimming Preds hater.

[Popes]

I'm all done. It's not worth it.

For the record, Mike, I do appreciate that you were the person who specifically said you didn't think it would be collusion.

[Popes]

I was referring to Joel's comment. My apologies if it seemed like I meant you because of it's proximity to other statements. Anyway, as Jim said, moving on...

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Popes

I was referring to Joel's comment. My apologies if it seemed like I meant you because of it's proximity to other statements. Anyway, as Jim said, moving on...

Well, you quoted me in your post. It was hard to read that any other way.

Apology accepted. Let's move on.

[Flaxwless]

I don't think anyone thinks it's collusion or anything.

At least for me I were the Avengers... knowing that a deal HAD to be done I wouldn't have parted with a 1st rounder, 2nd at best and this is coming from someone who values Travis Henry and Kevin Curtis as solid, startable players.

[Amish]

Originally Posted by Popes

I was referring to Joel's comment. My apologies if it seemed like I meant you because of it's proximity to other statements. Anyway, as Jim said, moving on...

Never said it was collusion at all. People read too much into posts. All I was saying is that I wish that I had some work friend to bring into Frenzy and talk with. Because it is easier to trade with and talk with people than to post.

Collusion? COLLUSION??? (A la Jim Mora Playoffs - wondering why he was asked about it) Wondering why you thought I was saying collusion?