Rookie Draft

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

So we seem to have one more vote needed. Then it looks like we will be off to the lightning round.

BTW, Jake I understand what you mean about luck determining the order but I think two things will mitigate that somewhat. One, if you get to pick you spot (yes the order of choice is based on luck) then you have some control over the process. Two, even in cases where we have "rewarded" the worst teams it is not like they have always come away with the best players.

Just my thoughts since I think once the draft starts there are no sure things that are likely to unfairly inhibit teams for years down the line (at least in my mind).

I'll also add that after three years of rookie drafts in the Frenzy, really, to me it looks like only one team has any significant amount of the core of their team was acquired through the draft (I'd say the Swords with McGahee, K. Jones, and Boldin). Sure some other teams have key players they have gotten through the draft, but at this point, no one has created an unchallangable team through the draft. The draft adds a tremendous amount of fun to April and May. If we were playing for a thousand dollar entry fee, winner take all, then I might be a little hesitant to let lady luck determine who gets the best slot in the draft. But this league is for fun, so lets have some fun with it.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

If we were playing for a thousand dollar entry fee, winner take all, then I might be a little hesitant to let lady luck determine who gets the best slot in the draft. But this league is for fun, so lets have some fun with it.

I knew I had a third point before (I should have finished my coffee and let the caffenine kick in). No matter where you end up (what your 6 picks are) you can trade to try and take advantage of the situation. In my scenario Team 1 picks at 1.1 and then not again for a while. Maybe pick 1.1 gets traded to someone with more moderate picks or for a future first rounder or whatever. Since everyone is aware of what is happening going in and no one is being forced to pick at any slot (as long as you can find a trade partner) I think the biggest part of luck is just picking good players. No matter where you select that is always a (the) challenge.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

I'll also add that after three years of rookie drafts in the Frenzy, really, to me it looks like only one team has any significant amount of the core of their team was acquired through the draft (I'd say the Swords with McGahee, K. Jones, and Boldin). Sure some other teams have key players they have gotten through the draft, but at this point, no one has created an unchallangable team through the draft. The draft adds a tremendous amount of fun to April and May. If we were playing for a thousand dollar entry fee, winner take all, then I might be a little hesitant to let lady luck determine who gets the best slot in the draft. But this league is for fun, so lets have some fun with it.

Considering there is a fair amount of trading in the Frenzy, I'm not sure you can make that analysis. Sure, the Swords have hung on to their picks, but lets see, I've taken my picks and used them to obtain different value (some good, some not so good).

I've swapped value for guys like Ashley Lelie, Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Dallas Clark, and LJ Smith for players like Peyton Manning, Alge Crumpler, the 1.01 in this years draft, the 2.01 etc.

Other draftees like Tatum Bell, Eli Manning, Onterrio Smith, and even Samie Parker are key parts of my 2005 active roster Frenzy plans.

Seriously, unless you can account for the value of every guy traded and what was received in return I don't think you can accuratly make a statement like that.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

Considering there is a fair amount of trading in the Frenzy, I'm not sure you can make that analysis. Sure, the Swords have hung on to their picks, but lets see, I've taken my picks and used them to obtain different value (some good, some not so good).

I've swapped value for guys like Ashley Lelie, Javon Walker, Andre Johnson, Dallas Clark, and LJ Smith for players like Peyton Manning, Alge Crumpler, the 1.01 in this years draft, the 2.01 etc.

Other draftees like Tatum Bell, Eli Manning, Onterrio Smith, and even Samie Parker are key parts of my 2005 active roster Frenzy plans.

Seriously, unless you can account for the value of every guy traded and what was received in return I don't think you can accuratly make a statement like that.

You won't be able to trade your picks this time around though because (if things go my way) the rookie draft will be before free agency. The teams you traded all your picks to haven't built a monster team with all those picks. Yes, I do not disagree you built your team in part by dealing picks, but that won't happen here. And the teams with all those extra picks didn't make a monster team either. I stand by my original statement.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

You won't be able to trade your picks this time around though because (if things go my way) the rookie draft will be before free agency. The teams you traded all your picks to haven't built a monster team with all those picks. Yes, I do not disagree you built your team in part by dealing picks, but that won't happen here. And the teams with all those extra picks didn't make a monster team either. I stand by my original statement.

I'm not talking about just trading the picks themselves though, most of the rookies I traded were traded 1-2 years into their contracts... that's when I swapped thme for other value, and the same thing will happen in SAC'D.

Someone will build a strong draft (possibly because of lucky positioning in the random order selection) and use that as bait to improves his team even moreso down the line.

My point is you can't just look at the Frenzy Rosters and see who has their draft picks and who doesn't to determine if they've "built" a powerhouse through the draft... it's just not a valid method of seeing what teams got out of the draft unless you trace those picks to every trade they made to find out the end results.

[Mutts]

Man guys, I don't have time to vote until later today... but I guess I just missed everything yesterday. Why are we voting on a serpentine when the original poll to determine whether we have a draft is tied? Impact lessened or not, I hate the idea of adding luck to this league.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Man guys, I don't have time to vote until later today... but I guess I just missed everything yesterday. Why are we voting on a serpentine when the original poll to determine whether we have a draft is tied? Impact lessened or not, I hate the idea of adding luck to this league.

I think one of the No's moved to Yes which made it 7-4 prior to your vote and now 7-5 in favor.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

I'm not talking about just trading the picks themselves though, most of the rookies I traded were traded 1-2 years into their contracts... that's when I swapped thme for other value, and the same thing will happen in SAC'D.

Someone will build a strong draft (possibly because of lucky positioning in the random order selection) and use that as bait to improves his team even moreso down the line.

My point is you can't just look at the Frenzy Rosters and see who has their draft picks and who doesn't to determine if they've "built" a powerhouse through the draft... it's just not a valid method of seeing what teams got out of the draft unless you trace those picks to every trade they made to find out the end results.

When you look at all of the Frenzy rosters, how many teams do you look at and say "this team is heads and shoulders above the rest of the league. No one (except the other teams you say the same thing about) will be able to compete with them this year"? You don't have to give me the team names, just tell me how many teams have a shot at winning the Frenzy Bowl this year?

[The Immortal Ramirez]

see my soapbox dialogue in the other thread as well in discussing luck.

You can also add I did that with one rookie draft pick (Big Ben - who was on my DS all year).

[Mutts]

Alright, I went ahead and voted. Though I'm very much against any serpentine, I voted for a standard serpentine because if we're going to introduce luck, lets just do it. I think we screw things up by projecting our own opinions into valuations of draft positions. I would hate to be the team that got the #1 if the draft goes 1-12, then 12-1 the rest of the way. Personally I think you guys are way overvaluing RBs in this league - there's a reason the focus has switched to WRs in the Frenzy.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

I think one of the No's moved to Yes which made it 7-4 prior to your vote and now 7-5 in favor.

Yea, you got 2 flip flops before all the votes could be counted, and I contend they should be able to consider flipping back in light of the fact that their intentions were against the rookie draft but they flipped because they saw it as a losing batt;e (which it wasn't).

This was like the f'n presidential election, the folks in favor of the draft were calling a win before they counted all the votes, and thus swayed public opinion.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Wonder Mutts

Alright, I went ahead and voted. Though I'm very much against any serpentine, I voted for a standard serpentine because if we're going to introduce luck, lets just do it. I think we screw things up by projecting our own opinions into valuations of draft positions. I would hate to be the team that got the #1 if the draft goes 1-12, then 12-1 the rest of the way. Personally I think you guys are way overvaluing RBs in this league - there's a reason the focus has switched to WRs in the Frenzy.

I'll remind you Jake that there is absolutely zero chance you'd end up with the #1 overall pick in a 1-12, 12-1 draft with randomized order to determine the order each teams gets to choose their pick selection. There is at least one other team who has indicated they would like the #1 pick, ensuring you of not getting that.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

Yea, you got 2 flip flops before all the votes could be counted, and I contend they should be able to consider flipping back in light of the fact that their intentions were against the rookie draft but they flipped because they saw it as a losing batt;e (which it wasn't).

This was like the f'n presidential election, the folks in favor of the draft were calling a win before they counted all the votes, and thus swayed public opinion.

I would say that if people want to change their mind, they should voice that opinion now, or at least sometime today. I have no problem with people switching back, and I don't think an issue closes magically when the last vote is registered (assuming we allow people to change their vote prior to that which we obviously have here). I don't want to do a draft if the majority aren't happy with it.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I don't want to change my mind on the rookie draft but I would be happy to change my vote on the draft order to 1-12, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1 if that brings us closer to having an order selected.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

All Votes are in. No Majority. Eliminating lowest vote and moving to a new thread.

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

I don't want to change my mind on the rookie draft but I would be happy to change my vote on the draft order to 1-12, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1, 12-1 if that brings us closer to having an order selected.

What was your vote before?

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

4 options? This is going to be a cluster ####.

I told you! But did you listen? No, it's just a harmless little bunny rabbit!

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I soiled my armor....

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Ramirez

I soiled my armor....

Stop setting up polls...AND GO CHANGE YOUR ARMOR!

[Preds]

Jake,

Can you post your email address so I can have the randomizer send out a selection order?

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Not official but here are Jake's addy's from the Frenzy Rules:

atzjake@hotmail.com
jda@accessbraille.com