2.5 RB Quentin Griffin, Denver Broncos

Mutts · May 23rd, 2003, 10:57 AM

1884 yards rushing last year in the Big 12 cannot be ignored. Though I don't necessarily feel his place to shine will be in Denver. the Broncos selection definitely legitimizes Griffin as a top RB prospect in my mind. Welcome to the team, little man!

Nittany Dodgers · May 23rd, 2003, 11:06 AM

Me thinkg Bryant Johnson is no longer the biggest reach in the draft.

Jersey · May 23rd, 2003, 11:36 AM

He'll be a quality Kick returner for years to come

Mutts · May 23rd, 2003, 11:47 AM

There is talent galore in this draft... and Shanahan didn't spend his 3rd pick in the draft on a kick returner. You can count on that.

Preds · May 23rd, 2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wonder Mutts
There is talent galore in this draft... and Shanahan didn't spend his 3rd pick in the draft on a kick returner. You can count on that.

I agree, Shanny knows RB's... perhaps better than anyone else.

I see Griffin as the RB2 in Denver next year, if not this year. If Portis goes down he could be a star.

I have no problem with the pick myself. At 2.5 no more of a reach than a lot of other players.

How bad did it look when Lamar Gordon was taken last year with Faulk and Trung in front of him?

Nittany Dodgers · May 23rd, 2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Parkwood Predators
I agree, Shanny knows RB's... perhaps better than anyone else.

I see Griffin as the RB2 in Denver next year, if not this year. If Portis goes down he could be a star.

I have no problem with the pick myself. At 2.5 no more of a reach than a lot of other players.

How bad did it look when Lamar Gordon was taken last year with Faulk and Trung in front of him?

I disagree that Shanny is so knowledgable on RBs. I think it's the system. Just like in Minnesota, I don't think that Denny Green was the best talent evaluator when it came to QBs (QBs that had great years in MN: and old Warren Moon, Brad Johnson, and old Randal Cunningham, an old Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper), he just had an offense that put up great passing yards. Denver has a system, and an offensive line, that is going to produce outstanding running back statistics. If Shanny knew what he was going to get out of Terrell Davis, you really think he would have waiting all the way to the 6th or 7th round (whatever it was) when he knew he had a MVP waiting to happen? Same goes for Anderson and Gary.

Lamar Gordon was drafted to play behind an old running back, and a backup that was far from a complete running back. Griffith is behind the ROY and a recent 1500 yard ROY.

Mutts · May 23rd, 2003, 12:43 PM

A controversial pick to say the least.

The fact of the matter is I put absolutely zero emphasis on where he is playing. I don't think think his playing time will come in Denver. But I think he has stud potential, and he'll be signed to my DS for 5 years. In my mind, no way he stays on a team in a backup role for more than 2 years. When he comes off the DS 2-3 years from now, he will still be carrying a salary of only $720. That's a deal if he performs as I think he can.

I'd like to add that Denny Green wasn't bringing all those guys in from the draft, either. Talent evaluation is completely different once a player has been in the NFL system. And yes, I do think Shanny would wait until later rounds to draft his backs if he knew what he was getting... and knew the rest of the league didn't realize the potential. To do otherwise would have had a negative impact on the team, as the value of their picks during the 90s would not have been near as great.

Nittany Dodgers · May 23rd, 2003, 01:57 PM

Jake, I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. First things first, as far as Denny's QBs; half of the QBs that Denny drafted in his tenure have made the pro bowl (Johnson and Culpepper. Chad May and Gino Torretta being the other two he drafted in the 4th and 7th rounds respectively). Half of the Rbs that Shanny has drafted have been great picks (Davis, Gary, Portis, and Anderson). Therefor I do think it is a valid comparison even disregarding he fact that Green brought in a then thought washed up Moon, Randal Cunningham having been out of football for 2 years and trying out as a punter for New Orleans, and Jeff George who had boucned around the league and won no where.

You say it was all part of Shanny's master plan to wait until late to grab his RBs, knowing full well their potential. So, in 1995, knowing he was drafting a future MVP and the player that could carry the team to the Super Bowl, he risks leaving him available so he can take Jamie Brown (now out of the league), Ken Brown (now out of the league), Phil Yeboah-Kodie (now out of league), and Fritz Frequere (now out of league). Interesting theory.

Then again in 1999, knowing he has a potential 1000 yard back in Olandis Gary, he waits on him until the 4th, grabbing Al Wilson, Montae Reagor (no longer with team), Lennie Friedman (now in Washington), Chris Watson (now in Detroit), and Travis McGriff (out of league).

Then, knowing he has another potential 1000 rusher in Mike Anderson, he risks waiting until the 6th round on him to take Deltha O'Neal, Ian Gold, Kenoy Kennedy, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson (no longer in league), Cooper Carlisle, and Muneer Moore (no longer in league.

Throw in the fact that Shanny has drafted Detron Smith in the 3rd round (ahead of Stephen Davis), LT Levine (who?), Curtis Alexander in the 4th (ahead of Jonathan Linton) and Chris Howard both in front of Chris Fuamatu Ma'afala takes some luster off his "all knowledgable" rb status.

Yes, no one is perfect, but how does someone who knows what he has in David and Anderson wait until the 6th for each while taking guys like Detron Smith, LT Levin, and Curtis Alexander in earlier rounds? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy it.

Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers · May 23rd, 2003, 02:28 PM

Well if Shanny knew that Davis, Gary, or Anderson would be available at later rounds why not pick other players first? Even if they dont work out, as long as he knew those RBs would be available late, no need to pick them up any earlier. That's just a possibility. I'm not saying Shanny knew they'd last that long, he just probably took a calculated risk that they would be there in later rounds. Just a thought.

Jersey · May 23rd, 2003, 02:37 PM

I don't think he would have gambled on a player that he thought would be a 1000 yard rusher......come on....it's the system......just like Indy and St Louis.....they have great run offenses which make it easy for an average back to put up solid numbers and for an all pro to look like a super stud!!

Nittany Dodgers · May 23rd, 2003, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers
Well if Shanny knew that Davis, Gary, or Anderson would be available at later rounds why not pick other players first? Even if they dont work out, as long as he knew those RBs would be available late, no need to pick them up any earlier. That's just a possibility. I'm not saying Shanny knew they'd last that long, he just probably took a calculated risk that they would be there in later rounds. Just a thought.

It's not that I don't understand the theory, just that I don't believe it. I just can't believe that Shanny knew Terrel was going to be a superstar and risked waiting another round to take him. Was there some tremndous possible upside to Fritz Frequere that he had to take him with their first pick in the 6th instead of Davis? I really don't believe that by the 6th round, Shanny is going to know exactly who other teams are going to take that he can make two picks in the round, and risk getting the gem in the draft with his second pick so he can take a guard earlier in the 6th.

Mutts · May 23rd, 2003, 07:20 PM

Umm... guys. I'm only going to talk about potential. I make no inference that Griffin is a surefire stud, I can do nothing but draft on potential. You ask why Shanny waited to draft Davis when he knew he was "a future MVP and the player that could carry the team to the Super Bowl"? Of course he didn't know that, you can only identify potential. In contrast, a high draft pick does not define a players greatness, only the amount of potential identified by NFL teams... and therefore the demand (necessitating the selection of players at specific positions). I don't think NFL scouts or coaches would claim to have such complete foresight as to know the greatness to be achieved, much less myself. History would prove otherwise. You can only draft on potential... and I believe Griffin has that potential. Please don't make the assumption that I believe Chris Brown or Tyrone Calico to be can't miss studs either!

:toast:

May 23rd, 2003, 10:57 AM	#1
Mutts General Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 3,026	2.5 RB Quentin Griffin, Denver Broncos 1884 yards rushing last year in the Big 12 cannot be ignored. Though I don't necessarily feel his place to shine will be in Denver. the Broncos selection definitely legitimizes Griffin as a top RB prospect in my mind. Welcome to the team, little man!

May 23rd, 2003, 12:43 PM	#7
Mutts General Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 3,026	A controversial pick to say the least. The fact of the matter is I put absolutely zero emphasis on where he is playing. I don't think think his playing time will come in Denver. But I think he has stud potential, and he'll be signed to my DS for 5 years. In my mind, no way he stays on a team in a backup role for more than 2 years. When he comes off the DS 2-3 years from now, he will still be carrying a salary of only $720. That's a deal if he performs as I think he can. I'd like to add that Denny Green wasn't bringing all those guys in from the draft, either. Talent evaluation is completely different once a player has been in the NFL system. And yes, I do think Shanny would wait until later rounds to draft his backs if he knew what he was getting... and knew the rest of the league didn't realize the potential. To do otherwise would have had a negative impact on the team, as the value of their picks during the 90s would not have been near as great. Last edited by Mutts; May 23rd, 2003 at 12:49 PM.

May 23rd, 2003, 11:06 AM	#2
Nittany Dodgers Feeding Frenzy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Maplewood, MN Posts: 5,204	Me thinkg Bryant Johnson is no longer the biggest reach in the draft.

May 23rd, 2003, 11:36 AM	#3
Jersey NF-FFL Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Weehawken, NJ Posts: 565	He'll be a quality Kick returner for years to come

May 23rd, 2003, 11:47 AM	#4
Mutts General Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 3,026	There is talent galore in this draft... and Shanahan didn't spend his 3rd pick in the draft on a kick returner. You can count on that.

May 23rd, 2003, 01:57 PM	#8
Nittany Dodgers Feeding Frenzy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Maplewood, MN Posts: 5,204	Jake, I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. First things first, as far as Denny's QBs; half of the QBs that Denny drafted in his tenure have made the pro bowl (Johnson and Culpepper. Chad May and Gino Torretta being the other two he drafted in the 4th and 7th rounds respectively). Half of the Rbs that Shanny has drafted have been great picks (Davis, Gary, Portis, and Anderson). Therefor I do think it is a valid comparison even disregarding he fact that Green brought in a then thought washed up Moon, Randal Cunningham having been out of football for 2 years and trying out as a punter for New Orleans, and Jeff George who had boucned around the league and won no where. You say it was all part of Shanny's master plan to wait until late to grab his RBs, knowing full well their potential. So, in 1995, knowing he was drafting a future MVP and the player that could carry the team to the Super Bowl, he risks leaving him available so he can take Jamie Brown (now out of the league), Ken Brown (now out of the league), Phil Yeboah-Kodie (now out of league), and Fritz Frequere (now out of league). Interesting theory. Then again in 1999, knowing he has a potential 1000 yard back in Olandis Gary, he waits on him until the 4th, grabbing Al Wilson, Montae Reagor (no longer with team), Lennie Friedman (now in Washington), Chris Watson (now in Detroit), and Travis McGriff (out of league). Then, knowing he has another potential 1000 rusher in Mike Anderson, he risks waiting until the 6th round on him to take Deltha O'Neal, Ian Gold, Kenoy Kennedy, Chris Cole, Jerry Johnson (no longer in league), Cooper Carlisle, and Muneer Moore (no longer in league. Throw in the fact that Shanny has drafted Detron Smith in the 3rd round (ahead of Stephen Davis), LT Levine (who?), Curtis Alexander in the 4th (ahead of Jonathan Linton) and Chris Howard both in front of Chris Fuamatu Ma'afala takes some luster off his "all knowledgable" rb status. Yes, no one is perfect, but how does someone who knows what he has in David and Anderson wait until the 6th for each while taking guys like Detron Smith, LT Levin, and Curtis Alexander in earlier rounds? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't buy it.

May 23rd, 2003, 02:28 PM	#9
Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers Feeding Frenzy Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 946	Well if Shanny knew that Davis, Gary, or Anderson would be available at later rounds why not pick other players first? Even if they dont work out, as long as he knew those RBs would be available late, no need to pick them up any earlier. That's just a possibility. I'm not saying Shanny knew they'd last that long, he just probably took a calculated risk that they would be there in later rounds. Just a thought.

May 23rd, 2003, 02:37 PM	#10
Jersey NF-FFL Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Weehawken, NJ Posts: 565	I don't think he would have gambled on a player that he thought would be a 1000 yard rusher......come on....it's the system......just like Indy and St Louis.....they have great run offenses which make it easy for an average back to put up solid numbers and for an all pro to look like a super stud!!

May 23rd, 2003, 07:20 PM	#12
Mutts General Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 3,026	Umm... guys. I'm only going to talk about potential. I make no inference that Griffin is a surefire stud, I can do nothing but draft on potential. You ask why Shanny waited to draft Davis when he knew he was "a future MVP and the player that could carry the team to the Super Bowl"? Of course he didn't know that, you can only identify potential. In contrast, a high draft pick does not define a players greatness, only the amount of potential identified by NFL teams... and therefore the demand (necessitating the selection of players at specific positions). I don't think NFL scouts or coaches would claim to have such complete foresight as to know the greatness to be achieved, much less myself. History would prove otherwise. You can only draft on potential... and I believe Griffin has that potential. Please don't make the assumption that I believe Chris Brown or Tyrone Calico to be can't miss studs either! :toast:

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