More Rules discussion

[Burt the Butcher]

Since we are still in off season, and have gotten active again, I would like to toss around another idea, kind of an offshoot of RFA.

In Frenzy, you can only have a player for a max of 5 years. So when we draft rookies, we are using part of that 5 years, in most cases, to let a player develop. So, for pretty much all positions other than RB, we lose a big chunk of this contract while letting a guy get his bearing.

I would propose that while we keep the TS and PS size the same, 5 and 3 total, and the round in which we can place a draft pick on our PS, we would not have a years cap, but instead would not be required to put contract years on a player until we declare them active. This gives us a full contract like we would get for UFA's and RFA's. The limits once you declare an 'Active' contract would be the same as they are currently.

Thoughts?

[Burt the Butcher]

Also, salary would be set the same, and would roll up each year as currently stated, 10% plus bonuses..

[Scorpions]

I like this, because you see too many players not on your roster long if they take a few years to develop. I think this makes drafting the right way, worth more as well. Some positions take longer for a player to hit the active roster than others, like WR and QB, most of them take about 3 yrs before they are starters. SO under the current system, say I give this guy 4 or even 5 years, and he sits on my TS for 3 years, so when i move him up year 4, he has one year maybe 2 left. Might as well not draft players like that, and wait for them to hit FA market, or RFA.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

This sounds like how we set it up in baseball. However, I think the bigger issue is that we can't reneg players. I would be fine with leaving it as it it but adding some reneg ability (not quite sure how to phrase that idea) to the process.

If that does not take than I can see this as a viable alternative.

[zdravko27]

Burt is only proposing this because his taxi squad is already maxed out!

My $0.02:

I like the strategic aspect of having to assign years and live within the taxi squad cap. Makes you think more, make the hard decisions. Under this proposal, you will just hold on to five players. When one of them pans out, you will assign the max contract and practically hold on to him forever. Is this what we really want?

Also, the off-season FA wire will dry up even more. The off-season activity is why I like this league. I'd rather have as many players as possible up for bidding in June. After the draft, that's where the fun is!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I'm not in favor of giving players a "free pass" on the TS/PS until declared active... that's one of the challenges in drafting & assigning contract years. I could see adding an additional 1-2 years for any player on the PS... but I think you should declare it at the start. I agree that it would adversely affect the UFA market. So much of what makes this league great is the "supply & demand" principle. With no renegotiation, just about every player will (sooner or later) be available to every one of us... IF WE CHOOSE TO PUT OUR MONEY THERE.

[Burt the Butcher]

My argument against would be you still would only have 5 spots on TS and 3 on PS....how long can you really hold on to these players when we draft 4 rounds each year? You really think this will take a chunk of players out of action? At most, you can only keep a player on your TS for 3 years....

And yes, it does sort of have something to do with my current situation, but with this proposal, I would still have decisions to make to make room for new crop of rookies....

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

It's the monopolizing of a player that I'm most concerned about. You could hold onto a player for 3 or 4 years until he finds his place (ala Rogers in GB) and THEN slap a 5-year tag on him... pretty much guaranteeing no one else in the league's gonna get their hands on him. That's just way too long for me.

But like I said... if we want to expand the number of years available to 4th rounders, that might drastically change the way we draft for our PS.

[Scorpions]

well, if you draft smart, then having a player that long is a bonus for waiting on the guy you were smart enought to draft.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

If you draft smart... you'll have guys you can use BEFORE that time.

[Scorpions]

1st and 2nd round yes, but 3rd and 4th rounders?

[zdravko27]

I don't know how much credit should be given to "drafting smart" in later rounds....I do as much research as I can, even on the undrafted rookies. And I still think 3rd and 4th rounders are practically a crapshoot that has more to do with luck and circumstances than with player talent.

So I gotta side with Jim on this one. The reason why this league is more fun than the usual contract dynasty is because enough good players hit RFA and FA. Even so, I think our FA pool is fairly dry this year. I'd say, let's not jeopardize the important stuff because we want to get a chance to keep the good rookies for 8 years.

[Bounty Hunter]

This proposal changes the draft strategy for some players as mentioned. Under this proposal I believe there are quite a few players that would have more value than they have now.

I also believe this proposal puts more value on the draft and takes some value away from FA. The draft is my favorite part and I like the proposal.

[zdravko27]

I think it's a matter of magnitudes. Yes, draft value goes up, but FA value goes down more.

Either way, it looks like Burt is close to securing a majority here. Maybe put it to a vote and wrap up the issue?

Since the draft has already started and people have made their choices, I am guessing it can't be effective immediately, but starting next off-season.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Anyone can put a rule up for vote... but yes, since the draft has already started this year (and RFA bidding had an impact on who one chooses to draft)... should this have a majority, it would be in effect NEXT football year.

[Scorpions]

I don’t see how the FA market really gets thin, you can only have the same number on PS and TS as before, sure you might see a couple guys stay off FA instead of being cut, but every year you draft 4 players, 3 for PS 1 for PS, with 5 slots on TS, you have to clear off at least 3 of those a year to make room for the new picks, so this in fact makes it harder to hang onto a player waiting on him to develop, while you draft 3 more that year, and need to determine if you cut a rookie, or someone else on your TS. so let’s say you keep one guy in this way, now you have only 4 spots, your drafting 3 new ones that year, so you have to cut guys earlier than usual, so that’s actually putting some guys out on the FA market faster. And all the arguments so far are assuming your keeping a hallof famer in this way and having him for a long time, with 5 slots, I don’t see it, and if I got lucky and held onto aron Rodgers who could have been a bust just like anyone else before they let farve go, then hey I got lucky.

[Burt the Butcher]

I love stirring things up...

I can certainly put it up for vote...I was hoping to get some opinions for different options of doing this...maybe a total limit...if you go past a certain number of years, you lose RFA rights to the player, etc.

technically, this is still the off season, so any rules passed will go into effect for this years season.

I really do not see how this can change the way you draft players, but maybe that is just me....

[zdravko27]

Scorpions is right - let's move away from the Aaron Rodgers example. That's a clear outlier case.

The reason why FA suffers is because every year you will dump the crappy players and keep the promising ones for an extra year. If you chose to throw a player away, how likely is it that the FA benefits much from his addition to the waiver wire?

Then, the few good guys that eventually make your active roster will not hit the FA until FIVE years after they become useful to you. Under the current situation, they would hit RFA/FA in only TWO-THREE years - and that's assuming you had to wisdom to give them max contract in the first place.

That's how the FA/RFA suffers: most good players will be kept much longer and cheaper.

[Scorpions]

yeah but you only have 5 slots, how many guys are you goign to keep each year, one maybe two, then you have to toss guys out there, plenty of guys get thrown to the waiver wire, Example Foster was a FA last year, someone already gave up on him, heck i cut peyton hillis after 2 years of him rotting on denvers sideline. SO basically your assumign you are perfect at assuming who is better players. If i was that good, i would be workign for an NFL team.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

It may seem like "only 5 players" but for the league as a whole, this becomes 60 potential quality FAs that will be "hoarded" until the cows come home (or they get put into action & given a 5-year "stay out of the FA market" pass!).

It may be just my opinion... but I think this will have a MAJOR impact on the league (and not in the right direction).

[Burt the Butcher]

Right...my point is, you take a chance on a rookie, and a lot of times, you ONLY get 2-3 years benefit....if you sign a good UFA, you can get 5 years benefit....

How about this as an alternate, as I know what is coming, a good FA/RFA will be paid premium dollars. If you do take a rookie to max of 5 years after being on your roster for 1 or more years, than his salary will be adjusted somehow...like maybe 5 % below top 10 average salary or 50-100% increase in current years salary....something to offset the normal low price ....

I just don't want to put into play something thats going to make people want to leave the league...I guess this is a very sensitive subject with some of you....

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Not as sensitive as you may think from this thread... just opinionated.
But yes, if we adjusted the contract to make it more like an NFL "Franchise" tag... then that might be more equitable.

[Burt the Butcher]

ok..I'll put together a few options and put out an initial yes/no vote to see where the majority lies...

[Scorpions]

your argument about 60 hoarded assumes you are not keeping any you draft, or promoting them right to active from there, I just don’t see the math here, and if your hoarding 60 players among all teams , then were all really good at evaluating talent, and need to call the NFL today so we can all get jobs, we could make millions in the NFL.

[zdravko27]

My preference would be 'against', but I will fall in line with whatever the majority prefers.

[Scorpions]

This wouldnt be effective till next year even if it did pass, I think were at that point of the year already, new rules have to be in place before any new season activities start, we already started the year with RFA.

[Scorpions]

and based on the posts so far,i only see 3 for 3 against, so I am doubting this would pass.

[Scorpions]

See what happens when the draft slows down,

[Burt the Butcher]

It would take effect this year, as we are still in the off-season

[Scorpions]

ok, so i am wrong, happens once in while, lol