Trade Question

[emerald]

Are we restricted from trading 2010 rookies, RFA's and UFA's at this time only because we haven't declared the lengths of their contracts (years). Is that as easy to fix as declaring years on trade players or do we (more likely) have to wait until the mid-August deadline to make our rosters legal (# players active, active years limit, salary cap, taxi squad restrictions and practice squad rules)... never been through it, honestly don't know the answer.

[Liquid Swords]

You can trade anyone with the exception of RFAs at this time. RFAs need to wait until the mid-August deadline.

If you trade a 2010 rookie or off-season UFA, you just need to declare the contract years you want to assign to those players in the trade thread.

[Burt the Butcher]

According to rules:

RFA's cannot be traded prior to the start of in-season free agency (August 15th). The team winning the rights to the RFA (either the tendering team if they decide to match, or the highest bidding team if the tendering team declines to match) cannot trade that player until the start of in-season free agency has begun.

But I thought only UFA's would need to be assigned years before being traded? You can trade rookie picks without years declaration, so why not rookies who have not been assigned a roster spot yet? I don't see anything in the rules that say we need to assign rookie years/placement if trading them before assignment deadline....

[emerald]

Thanks! another question...

When are we allowed to cut RFA's? I know Freedom had to cut RGrant during the RFA period and pay penalty. What if I wanted to cut KOrton to make room on my roster...he doesn't have years assignment. I assume I can only cut him (and make him waiver elgible) after the Aug 15 roster set up deadline.

[Burt the Butcher]

I don't believe there are any restrictions on releasing RFA's...it will be assumed 1 year.

[Scorpions]

yep, cut him, we would assume you wont assign more than 1 year, then take the cap hit for cutting a player of 20% of his salary.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

But I thought only UFA's would need to be assigned years before being traded? You can trade rookie picks without years declaration, so why not rookies who have not been assigned a roster spot yet? I don't see anything in the rules that say we need to assign rookie years/placement if trading them before assignment deadline....

This may be another one of those areas we need to clarify in the rules. But the way we've operated prior to this is that ALL players have to have years declared BEFORE they're traded... rookies included. So just talk to the team that's getting the unnamed player via trade, find out how many years they want to assign him... make the designation via post... then execute the trade. Simple as that.

[emerald]

Jim,

I don't feel confident in my understanding of this to revise the rules wording - if you could write something I will copy it into the revision and you could check it.
Thanks!

John - Burners

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

How about...

TRADES
All players must have designated years assigned to their salaries prior to being traded. This means any rookies and/or UFA/RFA players during the off-season cannot go to a new team without specific contract years being named.

[Burt the Butcher]

RFA's are already covered in the Rules

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

agreed... but sometimes it's helpful to be very clear.

[zdravko27]

Is it considered acceptable to announce a trade that includes an RFA and make the trade effective mid-August?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by zdravko27

Is it considered acceptable to announce a trade that includes an RFA and make the trade effective mid-August?

No. No trades can be made with RFA's until mid-August. So if you make a trade now and want to back-door the RFA trade in August, you better have another acceptable trade in August to make it look legit... or it will be disallowed. Spirit of the rules applies.

[Burt the Butcher]

I think you missed what Reds asked...he asked if they can announce the trade, but it would not be effective until the time the RFA's can be traded...not sure why you'd want to, but as long as the trade does not go through, I don't see why they can't announce it...players would not be moved until August time frame, so they would still count against salary cap until then

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Seems to be a back door way of getting around the rules to me.
Nothing is legal until the trade is official (which would be the middle of August).
All rosters will have to be in full compliance until then.
And any cuts and/or trades that happen between then would take precedence (meaning, neither owner can be held captive by this "future trade," if they should choose to go in another direction with any of the players involved).

[zdravko27]

I really don't care on this one. I am keeping my own RFAs and am not interested in anyone else's at this point. Just crossed my mind as I was reading the thread whether the spirit of the rule is to ban people from negotiating trades in June.

I didn't see it as a back-door - no players change hands, no cap space is freed, no binding contracts are made. So all you are left with is the other owner's word - if they want to renege on that, so be it.

But if it is indeed a back-door, it is now identified and should be closed in the rules update. I presume it should read something like: "No owner can agree on a trade that includes an RFA player until mid-August."

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by zdravko27

But if it is indeed a back-door, it is now identified and should be closed in the rules update. I presume it should read something like: "No owner can agree on a trade that includes an RFA player until mid-August."

That's a good way of handling it. I really do think it's in the best interests of the league.

The reason we made the RFA trade ban until mid-August is that teams were matching RFAs that they had no intention of keeping on their roster. Then would do the infamous "Sign-n-trade" deals immediately. It got so that some would work out back-room deals prior to the RFA period's completion. It seemed to compromise the integrity of the RFA period. So we made that stipulation. A team can cut a RFA player at any point & take the cap hit. But if they want to trade... they need to wait until the UFA period has had a chance to run it's course.

Anyway... I wasn't questioning your integrity... just stating where we've been on this before.

[zdravko27]

I think your rationale for a rule is solid. My only concern is - how do you enforce something like that?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Can't. But it does prevent posting trades prior to the Aug. RFA move date. That's about the best we can do.

[Flaxwless]

I actually remember doing a trade where we agreed to trade RFAs on the 1st day they were available.

So it has been done before and seems perfectly acceptable, IMO.

The player still has to count against the other teams cap through out the off-season.

[zdravko27]

Perhaps we need a vote on this.

The vote wouldn't be on whether RFAs can be traded prior to mid-August - I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The vote would be whether to add a provision that disallows any trade talk, negotiations and future trade postings regarding RFAs until mid-August. Enforcement would have to be based on an honor-code system.

I think Jim is spot on with the argument that the integrity of the RFA process is paramount. It can't be stressed enough that this should be by far the most important concern. However, my public policy years have also made me very wary of legislating what you can't enforce in practice. Most times it ends up even worse than not legislating at all, since unenforceable rules tend to benefit those more willing to ignore them (especially if they don't agree with the reasons for the rule's existence) and put at a disadvantage those who choose to abide.

So unless we can come up with a credible enforcement mechanism, I'd probably suggest having a level playing field for all - let owners talk and post all they want, as long as they recognize no RFA trade can be valid until mid-August. To further reduce the incentives for any back-room deals, the mid-August date could even be pushed to after Week 1 for RFA trades only.

[emerald]

So if I wanted to trade a RFA I acquired (like TGonzalez) then the sequence is:

1) On Sunday, August 15th, all teams are required to declare cuts, placement on active,taxi squad and practice squad and years on rookies, RFA's and UFA's making rosters legal within league restrictions.

Then...

2) RFA's are elgible for trades?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Yes. Once you've established contracts for all the new RFAs/UFAs/Rookies and made any necessary cuts to get your roster to the legal limit (contract years & active players, taxi squad declarations, rookie cuts, etc)... THEN RFAs are able to be traded... as long as it's Aug.15 or later.

All this was set up to avoid the dreaded "sign & trade" problems we were having when we first set up the RFA system.