DS Squad issue we forgot to address

[Preds]

I think we discussed this a little last year, but forgot to clarify it for 2004.

Basically, the issue is, can a player be placed on the DS from the Active roster during the off-season by either the current team or a team acquiring said player by trade.

The rule states the following:

6B. Development Squad

<---SNIP--->

An Active roster player can NEVER be placed on the DS. The only way to place a player on the DS is to acquire them by trade or rookie draft.

Once promoted to the Active Roster, a player cannot be placed back on the Development Squad by the SAME team during the same season (if the player is traded other teams can place the player on their Development Squad, but the original team CANNOT have on his development squad that year).

The above rules are misleading in multiple ways. First it says that an active roster player can never be placed on the DS, but then it goes on to say that if you acquire a player via trade or in the rookie draft they can be placed on the DS. I think this supposed to mean that an existing team cannot move their own active roster player on to their DS, but they could trade an active roster player and he could be placed on another teams DS.

Then things get even muddier in the next paragraph when it says players cannot be moved "back" on to the DS by the same team during the same season. What the hell was I writing here! Does this mean in the off-season a player can be moved back and forth? It continues to state that via trade a player can be moved to the DS. Which is it.

I think we should do 2 things:

1. Clarify how the rules above should be interpreted as written for the 2004 season

2. Rewrite the specifics of the rule for the 2005 season so there is no room for interpretation.

Input from the league on this BEFORE it becomes an issue with teams would be appreciated!

[Brain Dead Squirrel Chasers]

I say if it doesnt affect anything now we should clarify it for 2004.

[Nittany Dodgers]

I believe the intent was that team a cannot trade player (who is on the active roster, but DS eligible) to team b, who then places them on their DS, and then have team B trade that player back to team a so they can place him on the DS. If team B trades that player back the following year, and is still DS eligible, then team A can put him on their DS. That's my understanding of the intent of the language. Given our RFA tender debate today, take that with a hefty helping of salt.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

I believe the intent was that team a cannot trade player (who is on the active roster, but DS eligible) to team b, who then places them on their DS, and then have team B trade that player back to team a so they can place him on the DS. If team B trades that player back the following year, and is still DS eligible, then team A can put him on their DS. That's my understanding of the intent of the language. Given our RFA tender debate today, take that with a hefty helping of salt.

OK, I'm more lost now ... can you clarify this a bit Brian?

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

OK, I'm more lost now ... can you clarify this a bit Brian?

I must be drinking and not knowing it. I understand no one today, and no one is understanding me.

The rule says "a player cannot be placed back on the Development Squad by the SAME team during the same season (if the player is traded other teams can place the player on their Development Squad, but the original team CANNOT have on his development squad that year)." I take that to me that a team cannot trade away a player it has on its active roster to another team, and then trade back for that player in the same year and place him on his DS. If he trades away a player on his active roster to another team, and trades back for him in a following year, he can place him on his DS. That is my understanding of what that rule is trying to say.

I don't think there is anything in the rule, or the original intent of the rule that says a team at any time can take a player from his Active Roster and place him back onto the DS. To me, the rule (while it could be written better) makes sense.

The first part is saying you can't take a player from your active roster and put him directly on your DS. You can only put a guy on your DS by drafting him, or by trading for a DS eligible player.

The second part says that if you trade away a guy from your Active Roster, you can't trade back for him and put him on your DS in the same year you traded him away.

Does that make sense, or should I really start drinking? Maybe that will help.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

My understanding of the rule was once a player is activated by a team, he is no longer elligible to go back on the DS for that same team. Period. Whether traded away (& back) or not.

Now, I've assumed (but you know what happens when you assume) that once a player is activated by ANY team, he can no longer be on anyone's DS. The only way a player can be put on a new team's DS is if he is traded as a DS player. Now, that could just be my misunderstanding.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

I must be drinking and not knowing it. I understand no one today, and no one is understanding me.

The rule says "a player cannot be placed back on the Development Squad by the SAME team during the same season (if the player is traded other teams can place the player on their Development Squad, but the original team CANNOT have on his development squad that year)." I take that to me that a team cannot trade away a player it has on its active roster to another team, and then trade back for that player in the same year and place him on his DS. If he trades away a player on his active roster to another team, and trades back for him in a following year, he can place him on his DS. That is my understanding of what that rule is trying to say.

I don't think there is anything in the rule, or the original intent of the rule that says a team at any time can take a player from his Active Roster and place him back onto the DS. To me, the rule (while it could be written better) makes sense.

The first part is saying you can't take a player from your active roster and put him directly on your DS. You can only put a guy on your DS by drafting him, or by trading for a DS eligible player.

The second part says that if you trade away a guy from your Active Roster, you can't trade back for him and put him on your DS in the same year you traded him away.

Does that make sense, or should I really start drinking? Maybe that will help.

! I'm still a bit lost, and I think I helped write the damn rule. F'n vagaries are so hard to eliminate!

What I don't get is 1st, what defines DS eligible... my understanding is a player with 3 or less years experience. What I don't get is how I could activate a player off the DS, teade him away to somebody else's active roster, and then trade back for him the next season and throw him back on my DS. Further, is there clarification in there as to whether or not in an off-season a team can move someone back or forth?

Personally, I think once a player makes the active roster on any team they should never be eligible to go back to the DS, although I'm not convinced the rules are clear on that.

I think we need to rewrite this section so that it is more clear, heck I partially (maybe 100%) wrote this section adn tonight I'm lost (maybe it was the RFA debate that has blown my mind lol).

Discussion on this topic before it becomes an issue is a good thing IMO!

[Nittany Dodgers]

Instead of me trying to explain it more, check out this link. It explains, if nothing else, partly why the rule is so convoluted:

http://www.predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375

Looking at that, I think the easiest solution is to just scrap the whole thing and come up with something new.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Instead of me trying to explain it more, check out this link. It explains, if nothing else, partly why the rule is so convoluted:

http://www.predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375

Looking at that, I think the easiest solution is to just scrap the whole thing and come up with something new.

hehe, well that goes back 2 years to the beginning, unfortunately I don't think that thought process helps after we changed the DS eligibilty rules in 2003. I'll have to go searching for that thread, but somewhere along the line I believe we made FA's not DS eligible and restricted things to draftees only... if I can find that thread maybe that'll clear things up.

[Preds]

ahh, here we go http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2002

I think Brian summed things up nicely here (in the 16th reply to the above referenced post)

Isn't this the exact reason why we got rid of the CB cap on the DS? Because only drafted players were going to the DS and there was no free market? I'd say once a player is cut, they are DS inelligble. A player needs to be drafted to be put on your DS, or traded to you by another team from their DS. Once activated, 'I'd say they are DS inelligble. I could go with trading from another team you could put them on your own DS if they were still elligble.

Of course, Brian's interpretation last year left open the loophole of trading.. I think we should rewrite section 6B of the rules to clarify the intent of the revised rule we passed a year ago. Think you can have a go at it Brian? Your much better at eliminating the vagaries that I often write!

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

ahh, here we go http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2002

I think Brian summed things up nicely here (in the 16th reply to the above referenced post)

Of course, Brian's interpretation last year left open the loophole of trading.. I think we should rewrite section 6B of the rules to clarify the intent of the revised rule we passed a year ago. Think you can have a go at it Brian? Your much better at eliminating the vagaries that I often write!

Mike, actually the trading I believe that was refered to was only between DS's. As you will see in the poll from that link, it specifically states that when a player is activated, they are no longer DS elligible (nice find on the thread by the way).

I will re-write 6B, as that should have been done in last year's updates.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Mike, actually the trading I believe that was refered to was only between DS's. As you will see in the poll from that link, it specifically states that when a player is activated, they are no longer DS elligible (nice find on the thread by the way).

I will re-write 6B, as that should have been done in last year's updates.

sounds good... thx