INVALID BID - STILL NEEDS TO CLEAR WAIVERS WR Doug Baldwin, SEA

[Bounty Hunter]

100

[Preds]

Slow down Skippy.

Baldwin hasn't cleared waivers yet, and won't until midnight tonight as his cut wasn't official until 12 AM this morning (you can't cut a player once a team has started it's game until the start of the next game week).

[Bounty Hunter]

I don't see this in the rules. I read 24 hours.

The Waiver Wire
Each player waived will be placed on the waiver wire for a period of 24 hours during In Season Free Agency, and 72 hours during Off Season Free Agency. During this period, each team will have the opportunity to claim the waived player and assume his current contract without the player reaching Free Agency. During the appropriate waiver wire period, each interested team must post in the origional "cut thread" indicating their intention to claim said player. At the end of the waiver wire period, the team with the highest current waiver priority (as defined later) will assume the players current contract. The claiming team will have the standard 24 hours from the time of the claim to make room on their roster, before Roster Penalties will be enforced (Off Season time is based on period - see section 6A). In that case, the team with the second highest waiver priority will assume the players contract. If no teams make a claim for a waiver player within the waiver period, the player is considered an Unrestricted Free Agent.

If the waived player is claimed, the waiving team receives a credit in the amount of 10% of the current year?s salary (the portion of the cap hit that does not pertain to the signing bonus) to their active roster salary cap. If the claimed player is subsequently released during the length of the same contract, the waiving team will receive a cap hit of only 10% of the current years salary, as the singing bonus is to be considered paid by the original team. If the player is claimed through the waiver wire, the second waiving team will receive the 10% cap credit, and essentially no penalty for releasing the player.

The waiver priority list will be maintained by the an owner assigned by commish in the Current Waiver Wire Order thread in the Frenzy Free Agency & Waiver Wire forum. Once the initial order has been set, it will not change until a transaction is made on the waiver wire. Once a team claims a player through the waiver process, they will be moved to the bottom of the waiver wire priority list. The order will never be reset. The order will only change based on transactions made through the waiver wire. The only way to move up in the waiver wire priority list is to have teams above you in priority claim players on the waiver wire.

Players waived during the playoffs will be follow the waiver rules as a player who is waiver during the season. Any team may put in a claim for a players waived during the playoffs.

[Bounty Hunter]

Never mind!! you're referencing the cut rules and not waiver rules.

[Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by Preds

Slow down Skippy.

Baldwin hasn't cleared waivers yet, and won't until midnight tonight as his cut wasn't official until 12 AM this morning (you can't cut a player once a team has started it's game until the start of the next game week).

Not seeing this in the rules about my cut not being official until 12 AM Tuesday morning. I see things about the bid process but not the cut process and game weeks.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Looks like we've found another hole in our rules... though the league has been very consistent with this in the past (I don't have time to look up precedent right now).

Players and rosters are locked once games begin. That's not disputed. And any bids made on locked players over the weekend "start" at 12:00am Tuesday. The question is what about WAIVED players?

Baldwin was released Monday... AFTER his team had played on Sunday. So technically, he's locked and the 24-hour clock doesn't start until 12am Tuesday, like everyone else... even if he's cut. But we haven't made this clear in the rules.

Looks like a bookkeeping issue. We need to clean this up.
So Bobby... you can bid on him at 12am Wednesday. Make sense?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Looks like we've found another hole in our rules... though the league has been very consistent with this in the past (I don't have time to look up precedent right now).

Players and rosters are locked once games begin. That's not disputed. And any bids made on locked players over the weekend "start" at 12:00am Tuesday. The question is what about WAIVED players?

Baldwin was released Monday... AFTER his team had played on Sunday. So technically, he's locked and the 24-hour clock doesn't start until 12am Tuesday, like everyone else... even if he's cut. But we haven't made this clear in the rules.

Looks like a bookkeeping issue. We need to clean this up.
So Bobby... you can bid on him at 12am Wednesday. Make sense?

Correct, I've always treated cuts after gametime as happening at 12:00AM Tuesday as rosters are locked until Tuesday morning once the game starts.

[Bounty Hunter]

Sounds good to me. I agree on the book keeping issue. I think we need a section in the rules that describes "Game Weeks".

Without thinking it through it may be possible that someone needs to cut a player that had a Thursday game in order to make room for a player acquired on Friday or Sat. Gives me a head ache thinking through a scenario like that.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

Sounds good to me. I agree on the book keeping issue. I think we need a section in the rules that describes "Game Weeks".

Without thinking it through it may be possible that someone needs to cut a player that had a Thursday game in order to make room for a player acquired on Friday or Sat. Gives me a head ache thinking through a scenario like that.

It happened to me in the past. Might have been part of the Willie Snead debacle (ETA nope that was due to the now defunct 5 player TE/K/D rule)?

My memory is fuzzy but I know I've personally had it come up where I couldn't drop a player because rosters are frozen after gametime until Tuesday morning, and I'm certain others have as well.

[Bounty Hunter]

Should be easy to clean up to allow teams to make cuts anytime to avoid roster penalties or cap space issues. The difficult wording would be on the waiver side.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

Should be easy to clean up to allow teams to make cuts anytime to avoid roster penalties or cap space issues. The difficult wording would be on the waiver side.

I don't agree with that. By allowing a team to cut a player in the space between a game starting and the last game of the week you give them a free "look" at said players production and the ability to substitute someone else in the interim (whether it be Thursday, Saturday, Sunday or even a Monday when there are early and late games) .

That's one reason rosters are locked till midnight after the MNF games.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Agreed. This is a loophole I don’t think we want to open.
Once a player has a game, he’s locked/frozen until the following Tuesday. So make your roster moves accordingly.

[chasmvp19]

i have concerns (Rules/precedents)...wrote out a long response...deleted it...all I can say is...nope, not feeding this beast...still concerns...keep deleting long responses...please fix rules so we can follow...thanks...

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Charles... Roger. But also create a rules change poll. Maybe more would feel as you do. We “old Frenzy farts” can handle it.

[Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Agreed. This is a loophole I don’t think we want to open.
Once a player has a game, he’s locked/frozen until the following Tuesday. So make your roster moves accordingly.

Is it unreasonable to clean up this loophole? Managing our rosters on an unwritten rule just doesn't seem right. The line you used seems to clear up the issue.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by chasmvp19

i have concerns (Rules/precedents)...wrote out a long response...deleted it...all I can say is...nope, not feeding this beast...still concerns...keep deleting long responses...please fix rules so we can follow...thanks...

Burt put in a lot of work in the off-season to clean up the rules, Patrick, Jim and I also contributed. They'll never be perfect, but they're leagues cleaner than they were previously.

We all invest a lot of spare time to keep the league up to date as much as possible, but some things just aren't worth the time and effort to make sure everyone is 100% satisfied that every T is crossed and I is dotted.

If this was a money league maybe it'd make more sense to try to be as perfect as possible, but this is the "fun" free league with some challenging aspects with the cap and whatnot you don't find in many other leagues.

All that said, if you would like to take a crack and clarifying ambiguous or inconsistent language within the rules that you think need cleaning up, then by all means please be proactive and suggest the areas you feel need to be cleaned up to Jim, Pat or I, or at least open the dialogue in the rules section so things can be discussed.

Everyone has a voice in this league, please don't be afraid to use yours. We may not agree 100% on everything, but maybe others do, and if there's enough votes to change things you don't care for then by all means, politic for the changes!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

We should be able to add that one line or two to clear things up on this issue. I don't have the formatting capability to do it online. Was that Burt's specialty?

[chasmvp19]

I loved the update Burt made...which includes all the hard work and time many owners contributed...this update made many complex issues easier to navigate and implement. The highlight effect really popped changes and new rulings.