RB Jonathan Stewart, Car - *** SOLD to Preds *** 405/2

[emerald]

400 cb's

[Preds]

405

[Preds]

SOLD to Preds,

2 years and automatically placed on IR since he hasn't completed his minimum 4 weeks since Burners placed him on IR week 3.

[Burt the Butcher]

whoa hold on now. Wouldn't this only apply if he were claimed, not bid on as FA? Even if this were true, wouldn't you still have to make room on your teams roster before placing him on IR? Seems like some made up loop hole here to get him without having to cut someone?

[Liquid Swords]

I agree with Mike that he needs to go to IR for at least one more week. However, I was under the same impression as Burt that he would first have to fit on the active roster before being moved directly to IR.

Commish thoughts?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Yes, we've always required owners to make room on active roster before placing on IR.

[Burt the Butcher]

But if he cleared waivers, why would he be held to IR placement of old owner? Contract resets, so why does IR time have to continue? I can see if a claim was made, but not a new contract.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

My understanding is that everything resets when a player is released and clears waivers to become a free agent. Don't know if we've spelled that out in the rules or not.

[Liquid Swords]

I've always thought a player must remain on IR for at least 4 weeks regardless. This way it prevents someone from dropping an IR player, re-acquiring him and putting him back on the active roster in a week's timeframe.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

When dropping a player, they'd assume the risk of losing that player as a free agent. I can see how you'd want to prevent it as being a loophole to be abused. But as we've never had that happen in the history of our league, I think it's more likely to be like this scenario. I think the spirit of the rules should be a clean slate for any new UFA acquisition.

[Liquid Swords]

Although nothing was resolved, I found this older discussion: http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11598. We should probably get something in the rules (effective in 2017) that will put this to rest should it come up again 9 years from now

We should go with the Commish's ruling and put this on the docket for 2017 rules discussion and voting.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Thanks. That was helpful. Even MIKE said in that thread that if a player is on IR, is cut, and then clears waivers, he shouldn't be held to the original IR ruling. However, Mike did mention his concern about having the original owning team rebid on the player as a UFA, thereby getting out of the 4-week IR rule. I'm open to declaring that in those cases the 4-week rule still applies (if an owner cuts a player & reclaims him off waivers).

[Bounty Hunter]

So if I acquire Tony Romo I can send him to IR and bypass A/R?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

NO. Any UFA acquisitions have to have space on the active roster BEFORE being placed on IR.

[Burt the Butcher]

so after all this, it looks like Mike needs to make a cut to fit JStew on his active roster before putting him on IR

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

so after all this, it looks like Mike needs to make a cut to fit JStew on his active roster before putting him on IR

According to the roster app, yes...as long as I didn't miss any previous moves/cuts. I'll upload updated version here shortly.

[Preds]

Why do I need to clear a roster spot. I have 24 hours to make the move to be under the roster limit, which in this case is the immediate move back to IR.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

NO. Any UFA acquisitions have to have space on the active roster BEFORE being placed on IR.

That's incorrect unles you changed the rules in he past. A player can be acuiqred and immediately placed on IR. I don't have access to the rules but I'm 99% sure this is actually addressed in the rules (acquiring a player and placing on IR within 24 hours to be at the roster limit).

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Here's the rules on INJURED RESERVE

10. Injured Reserve

Each team has a maximum of two (2) injured reserve slots. For a player to be put on IR he must be listed as Questionable, Doubtful or Out on any NFL.com weekly injury reports. Suspended players are NOT eligible for the IR. Any player placed on IR must remain on IR for a minimum of 4 weeks. By the start of the next rookie draft, each franchise must clear IR and have no more than sixteen players on their roster. Once a player is placed on IR, the club can pick up another player but they must go through the free agent channel as with any other pick up.

When a player is placed on IR, 50% of their salary will count against your cap (either active or DS, depending where the player was before the IR move), teams will also receive 1 temporary "contract year". This temporary year may be used at the discretion of the team for signing a replacement, etc. As soon as the injured player is removed from IR, the temporary year is revoked and the team must immediately return its roster to a total of 36 contract years.

The 1st available date will be a flexible date each year that basically commences the day after the 3rd pre-season games end (4th for the few teams that play 5). This will be approximately 7-10 days before the NFL regular season kicks off.

I read the rest of the rules and there's NOTHING else in our rules about players being able to (or not able to) be placed directly on IR.

SO... in light of there being NO RULE AGAINST it, it seems that Mike can put player directly on IR. So can anyone else... unless we want to institute a rule change vote (which would have to be 100% approval for it to take affect immediately).

[Preds]

Thinking about it, my local league specifically had a statement that lateral moves were allowed. The rulebooks and scoring were similar in many ways thus I mat be confusing the two, however, IMO as long as moves are made within the 24 hour grace period to get under the cap and roster size limits a player can be acquired and immediately placed on IR, TS, AR etc. It's like Burt acquiring Lockett and immediately demoting him to TS. Without that immediate demotion Burt would have been over the contract years cap. The move was made within 24 hours thus allowed.

I also think the IR rules states 4 weeks minimum. Nothing was ever solidified to clarify that, thus I've always operated under the impression that any player needs to serve his 4 weeks on IR. If that's not the case I'll happily make the space and start him this week. I bumped him figuring I wouldn't be allowed to use him until he served his minimum 4 weeks on IR.

[Burt the Butcher]

Since nothing specific against it, makes sense to me to allow it. I was just under the impression we did not allow it, but I am old man, so maybe was a dream....

[Burt the Butcher]

We did have this discussion before on timing of declarations, rookie placement and IR:
http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...ht=directly+IR

Where Jim did state:
You always have to have a player on your roster before moving him to the IR.
That's a given.

Maybe that is what I was remembering...but that does not really define this situation...I cannot believe this has not come up before over the years this league has been running...

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

We did have this discussion before on timing of declarations, rookie placement and IR:
http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...ht=directly+IR

Where Jim did state:
You always have to have a player on your roster before moving him to the IR.
That's a given.

Maybe that is what I was remembering...but that does not really define this situation...I cannot believe this has not come up before over the years this league has been running...

Wise, wise words. But it looks like we'll have to address this in the off-season if we want to change it from the present situation.

[Liquid Swords]

So what's the final ruling?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

FINAL RULING... is that Mike CAN put Stewart directly on to IR without creating a spot in his active roster.

[Liquid Swords]

and IR begins on week 6 correct?

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Yes. Unless Mike wants to clear space on his active roster... he seemed to think that wasn't an option.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Yes. Unless Mike wants to clear space on his active roster... he seemed to think that wasn't an option.

i worked under the premise that Stewart is not allowed on AR until he served his original 4 weeks with week 6 his 4th IR week not the start of 4 new weeks. If that is not the case I will place him on AR and make another cut for cap space and start him this week. Please clarify ASAP as now I'd need a waiver for the move to clear cap for him to be active.

My working understanding during this was that he was NOT AR eligible until he served his 4th week on IR.

[Burt the Butcher]

Once he cleared waivers, his contract was voided. IR time left should also be voided. I don't see it any other way.
Moving directly to IR without being placed first on AR and making room is what was at question here and whether we need to close the loophole of letting original owner rebid to get out of keeping player on IR full 4 weeks

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Once he cleared waivers, his contract was voided. IR time left should also be voided. I don't see it any other way.
Moving directly to IR without being placed first on AR and making room is what was at question here and whether we need to close the loophole of letting original owner rebid to get out of keeping player on IR full 4 weeks

Agreed.