Steve Smith comment thread

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I'm opening a comment thread because we try to keep the free agent/waiver wire posts to actual bids, with any discussion following an actual bud. This helps us keep the time/date stamp on the main page accurate to determining the 24-hour window. Now, on with the discussion...

Sorry for the confusion. Here's the reasoning behind the rule on the "NFL weekend". As long as a team doesn't play Thursday (games occur all-season long) or Saturday (which will start next month), bidding on a player can occur up til 11:59pm EST on Saturday. If a 24-hour window doesn't complete by 11:59pm EST on Saturday, the bidding is suspended until 12:00am Tuesday morning, where it picks up again. Since Sundays & Mondays are NFL days, the clock doesn't run. This allows people to actually have a life & enjoy Sunday/Monday. Any bids on players during this period will effectively have a time/date stamp of Tuesday @ 12:01am EST. If a team plays Thursday of Saturday, then their 24-hour window freezes at kickoff. So a Thursday player who's bid on Friday will also have a Tuesday 12:01am EST stamp.

I'm sorry this wasn't adequately explained to you by whomever helped bring you into the league. But I hope it makes things clearer.

Jim

[Burt the Butcher]

This is what the rules state:
Bidding for Free Agents will take place each week from 12:00am Tuesday until 11:59pm Saturday. Exceptions to this schedule will occur during weeks where there are Thursday games. During these weeks, Bidding will begin at 12:00am Tuesday, and end at 11:59pm Saturday however, players involved in the Thursday game(s) cannot be bid upon from gametime Thursday until the following Tuesday at 11:59pm.

If a player's 24 hour challenge period hasn't expired prior to 11:59pm on Saturday, bidding on that player will suspend until the following Tuesday at 12:00am when the 24 hour clock will resume.

If a bid is made on any player between 12:00am Sunday and 11:59pm Monday the bid will be treated as if it were made on Tuesday at 12:00am and the 24 hour challenge period will not begin until that time. Also note, that for players involved in Thursday or Saturday games, the clock will suspend the evening prior to their game(s) at 11:59pm and won't resume until the following Tuesday at 12:00am.
==============================================

Seems clear to me, but I have been in the leagues for over a decade,

How would you word it to make it more clear Chuck?

[chasmvp19]

I think it is clear enough...
Jim, it has nothing to do with the guy who brought me in...
The other new guy (bumble bee) has his own issues with following the rules.
All this time and this was my first time going over the "weekend" clock.
As you have seen (or maybe not) I have missed windows on players I was bidding on because life got in the way and I don't (or didn't) live on the FA board. This is a hard league because there are many rules and functions related to owning and running a team. The NFL idiots have a whole front office to perform all the actions we have to do alone. I get it because I signed up for it.
The Thursday and Saturday players are frozen until Tuesday? Good to know...see I learned something today. Never tried to get one of them cats. I did try to cut one after he played on Thursday and you guys shot that down...have to feel pain sometimes to really get it. Kind of like I did to bumble with the doper wr from CLE. He won't make that mistake again. If he wants a guy he will put a real bid in on him too. Dog eat dog league and I wouldn't have it any other way.
You all have been more than fair in some leniency at times and us new owners appreciate it...probably more than you know because it is embarrassing when you make rule mistakes that are right in front of you.

What I would do Burt is reinforce a few important rules from time to time especially when a new owner comes on board. Maybe some helpful hints about staying on top of bids and where. I recall Mike and Jim giving a talk on RFA and UFA bid efforts. I took it to heart in year 2 to maybe actually get the guys I wanted.
Hell I have never been in playoff hunt and thought all year this year that only 4 teams made it. I see now in the rules 6 make it. See, we have to go through it to understand it. I am sure I read it too because I read every dang word in the "Rules." Sooooo...all good on my end, I was just a little ass hurt because I messed up and vented on the boards....great job running the league guys!!!!!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

No worries. Your suggestion about a "here's a few things you should know when you start out" is a good one. That's usually what I do when I bring someone into the league. But history proves that not all of the guys I bring in end up staying (or getting it!).

Feel free to ask ANY questions... or give me a call (808-349-7881)... I'm happy to walk you through anything you want to know. Anytime. Seriously.

[chasmvp19]

Thanks Pastor!
The phone and e-mail list was VERY valuable!
This league is so fun when the Ws pile up and kills my spirit when I make lineup mistakes. Kind of like when you said people relax and enjoy Sun and Mon games...I have never enjoyed them in this league because my team has been horrible and I had 3 or 4 wins the whole year. This time I have some hope, but have enjoyed the ride because my squad was competitive most weeks. I still have not knocked off one of the big 3 (you, Mike, Burt) and that day will be sweet. Alas, it will have to wait until next year or later since my window has run out on 2015. Unless...I am blessed to make the playoffs....who knows????

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

This is a very strange year. Our EAST division is kind of like the NFC EAST... someone's got to win, but probably none of us deserve to make the postseason this year.

There's no money exchanged in this league, so hopefully it's a bit less stressful than others. I hope you're able to find the joy in this as you add years of involvement.

[chasmvp19]

It's funny...the less money involved...the more pride takes over...that is a powerful motivator...
I will be around as long as you guys will have me....
And if any of you cats are in AZ near Phoenix...feel free to stay at my house or let me know to get some dinner or whatever....even Bumble Bee....lol

[Preds]

Chuck, like Jim I'm always available to discuss rules. Even strategy if you'd like. Feel free to email or text anytime. Same goes for everyone in the league, especially the new guys. It's a complex league, and admittedly not all rules changes have made it into the online rule book over the years so you're suggestion for a Things You Should Know FAQ for newbies is a good one. Feel free to share your experiences and we can all add to it to create a handy reference in the future.

Your comment on Pride is so dead on. There is pride in participating in Frenzy since it's such a unique, complex league, with some very competent and competitive owners. The stronger the mix, the bigger the challenge and more fun it is when the wins start coming.

Jim's comment about the East being a mess this year is so dead on. I feel like for at least 2/3 of the season I've been on the fence debating whether to blow things up and build for 2016 or push for a playoff run, but then I'd win when I didn't expect to, or Jim and/or Matt would lose; keeping me in it. All Season I've been unsure as to just what I have with this squad, injuries have devastated me at points, as has some terrible lineup decisions. Ironically I could finish 9-5 and get the 2 seed with 2 wins this weekend, or lose both and fall to 7-7 and possibly miss the playoffs. This weekend describes my season in a nutshell. Could be great, could be crap! I'm sure Jim feels the same with his defending champ squad. We're both Jekyll and Hyde like, not sure what we're going to get any given week, but the potential there to score big at any time.

Speaking of lineup decisions, I just might text you for some lineup opinions this week. When are you free before the game tomorrow? Sadly not kidding and not so prideful that I won't consult, ask Jim, I've even turned to him over the years, we all help each other, even though we're in competition with each other!

Look for that text tomorrow, hope it doesn't wake you!

[chasmvp19]

Too funny...I wouldn't ask me for help with my own squad...I need one of them there front offices I spoke of earlier...darn QB's are killing me where they were my best decisions during my run...hot, cold, hot, cold...sheesh...I have out analyzed myself the last two weeks and it may cost me the division and playoffs...good core for next year though and another good draft may help 2016...I am available any time especially call or text...
Oh...I didn't mean to screw over the new guy as much as he thinks...5 cbs over the min for a potential future difference maker??? Why wouldn't I do that? I had the space both years and cash...done and done...when he plays, he is a horse...

[Burt the Butcher]

Mike, Patrick and I fine tuned the rule book this year, so it should be up to date. Anything still missing let me know.

Chuck you are a great addition to the league. Anyone who comes in and is active off the bat, and can dish out the bull is definitely a welcome plus!! I have no doubt your team will be competitive for years to come.

As to reinforcing important rules from time to time, not sure which ones are more important then others...I guess its when they come up as questions or when timing dictates specific things such as RFA period, etc.

Chuck and I did go over basic rules when I invited him into the league. He's a pretty smart dude, so figured he would pick it up. I have been in SAC'd since its inception over 10 years ago, and in Frenzy for about half that time. Both rule books are close to the same, and I still have to go back to the rule book to read up on things. That's my best recommendation, if unsure about a rule, look it up. I guess that does not help when you get caught in a rule you had not even thought existed, but hopefully you only get burned once.

[predator06]

Originally Posted by chasmvp19

The other new guy (bumble bee) has his own issues with following the rules.

I do not have issues with following the rules. I do think it is a challenge to learn them all. When I won Gordon the first time, I knew I wanted to sign him long term. I knew I won him. I THOUGHT that I had to wait until the posting asking how many years to reply to it. That posting came pretty late after I won him and I missed the cut. Fine.

I don't know if anyone else entered in the middle of the season getting a 30 minute rundown of how everything works. Its flipping hard to get a grip around.

It was a dick move to bid on Gordon. Especially after the suggestion post given of how I should handle it. I would have bid more, but I was butt hurt that someone would do that. I felt taken advantage of.

As you mentioned, it is a dog eat dog league. I will just gun for you.

[Burt the Butcher]

Just wait until someone post a last minute bump on you....now that always pisses me off...but its all part of the game...just have to not take it personally...

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Truth. It happens all the time. Sometimes people bump players to drive up the price. Sometimes they bump up because they legitimately want a guy (even if they missed the boat the first time around - that's totally happened to me!). Sometimes they bump to play keep away, so you can't get someone you need in time to use him over the weekend.

The amount you bid goes a long way in determining whether or not people will take the risk to bump up another player.

But Burt's right... don't take it personal.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Just wait until someone post a last minute bump on you....now that always pisses me off...but its all part of the game...just have to not take it personally...

We all get emotional when a plan falls through. Hell, I was unrightfully butt hurt with Chuck over losing out on DeAngelo Williams. Had no right to be, but emotions can get the better of you in the short term.

In all honesty I respect the heck out of his moves. Just pissed I ran out of cap space to compete.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Truth. It happens all the time. Sometimes people bump players to drive up the price. Sometimes they bump up because they legitimately want a guy (even if they missed the boat the first time around - that's totally happened to me!). Sometimes they bump to play keep away, so you can't get someone you need in time to use him over the weekend.

The amount you bid goes a long way in determining whether or not people will take the risk to bump up another player.

But Burt's right... don't take it personal.

Another

Though FYI, my bidding on the Skins isn't just keepaway. I'd only nickle bump once a day and drag it out till Saturday if that was the plan. ;)

[predator06]

I thought it was a formality, or I may have done something differently. It wasn't the same as every other guy being bid on. I will get over it.

[Preds]

Biggest thing to keep in mind is that teams are ultimately expected to manage themselves. If a player should be sold and isn't marked, don't hesitate to post your years. The clock goes by the actual time of sale, not when a thread is updated as sold.

We try not to keep up with them, but at times there are delays in the formal SOLD updates.

If you're not sure, message one of us. Don't hesitate to PM or text me, or Jim, or Burt, or Pat, etc.

[Burt the Butcher]

OR even post in the thread if you think he's sold. If you are mistaken, we will kindly let you know.

I was confused by your drop of knucklehead, and then when you put him back out, so I did not understand the intent behind it. I am sure Chuck did not either. Regardless, dude is a head case and I would be seriously surprised he set foot on an NFL field again for more than a couple games anyway before he is gone for good...

[Burt the Butcher]

Oh, and you both realize you are bidding over 300 cb on THE REDSKINS? buwahahahaha...dam

[The Knights of Ni]

I can't remember exactly how long I have been in the league but it has been around 8-10 years and I still make mistakes. On top of that this is an Awesome league with dedicated owners and have enjoyed every week I have been apart of this.....even though I have yet to win the championship. Hang in there newbies.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

OR even post in the thread if you think he's sold. If you are mistaken, we will kindly let you know.

I was confused by your drop of knucklehead, and then when you put him back out, so I did not understand the intent behind it. I am sure Chuck did not either. Regardless, dude is a head case and I would be seriously surprised he set foot on an NFL field again for more than a couple games anyway before he is gone for good...

Bees didn't declare years within 24 hours of the sale. He was over 12 hours late, and this was the 2nd time it happened in their short tenure in the league (the first was with Marcus Wheaton his first week in the league). Jim gave him a one-time pass the first time, but wouldn't be appropriate to do twice.

Since he was 12 hours late with contract years and was only going to get 1 year and then Gordon would be a UFA in the off-season, I suggested he just cut and rebid. Didn't think anyone would have jumped in, but then Chuck did, which he has every right to do.

Reality is if he hadn't cut Gordon he'd be a UFA in the off-season, unless he was tagged (highly doubtful). It was a low risk situation IMO. Maybe like you, Chuck wasn't aware as to why he cut Gordon, though even if he was, he was still well within his rights to bid on Gordon.

I can see why Bees would get pissed initially, since even I thought it would be highly unlikely that anyone would bid after he had just sold at league minimum and prospects for him returning to the NFL are fairly bleak. That said, he has to learn that there are never guarantees when it comes to bidding on players. We are all a bunch of sharks after all...

[chasmvp19]

The first go at Gordon my team was where I wanted it (in my mind), I have seen too many games won and lost because of WR more than any other position. I thought I would test the waters on how bad Killer actually wanted the guy. I am as shocked as anyone that I got him for 105...hell, I even gave him an extra year just because of the low low price...if he plays, great for me, if he smokes dope or drinks again, well shame on him and I will cut him deep...
Killer - I did not mean you chose not to follow the rules or were breaking them on purpose - I meant that they are difficult at times and confusing at other times...especially when you have it worked out in your mind how you want it to go, but the words in the rules actually mean something else...I am only in year 2 (full) and had to rebuild a squad EXACTLY like you are right now midway through a season...my team was literally in shambles...I was pissed you beat me a couple weeks ago too...nothing I could do though because my best score could not beat your total...good win for you and hurt my playoff chances...I have never sniffed the playoffs and been able to work the wire this late...
ADVICE---cut to the bone and find ways to save up money for the guys you really want...cut the dead weight as soon as possible to get the penalty costs over with...THAT is how I had 1900 to bid on D Williams...Make sure to watch the years - they can sneak up on you especially at draft time if you activate those guys....KEEP an eye on the calendar - I seem to always miss the dates to make moves or roster calls...never tell anyone your favorite team - they will jack up the price on the guys you want from there...Best of luck the rest of the way and on draft day...