Rules Discussion - timing of placing 4th year players on Active

[Burt the Butcher]

I was chatting with Bobby, and I am more impatient the he is apparently, as I do not see him putting up his idea in the forums yet, so I will give it a go, and Bobby can fill in as he sees fit.

The timing of the decision of whether to cut or make active, 4th year players, from your Farm teams, seems to be out of whack with the rest of our declarations in August.

Why do we have to make a decision on what to do with 4th year players in April when salaries roll over, before we make the decision for the rest of the Rookies in August? Why should we not be allowed to delay the decision until all other declarations are due, in August?

Seems this would make more sense, and at least allow us to make a better decision based on the pre-season goings on....

Thoughts?

[Preds]

Plain and simple... because the new contract year starts April 1st and a player in the 4th year of his contract cannot remain on the TS.

That was intentional.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

By the time they're into the start of their 4th year, we pretty much know what kind of player they are. Now, the question could be, do we hold onto a guy in hopes that he takes the next step during that final offseason... that's where decisions need to be made. Most of the time, however, it's probably not going to be that big of an issue. If a player hasn't made the jump by year 3... probably time to cut bait.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

By the time they're into the start of their 4th year, we pretty much know what kind of player they are. Now, the question could be, do we hold onto a guy in hopes that he takes the next step during that final offseason... that's where decisions need to be made. Most of the time, however, it's probably not going to be that big of an issue. If a player hasn't made the jump by year 3... probably time to cut bait.

This too.

[Bounty Hunter]

looks like we have 2 pretty good reasons; thats the way it was intended and guys suck that don't make it within 3 years?

I still think waiting until we declare rookies after the 3rd pre season is a viable alternative. What's so bad about giving guys and extra off season to make it if that would seldom come into play?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

looks like we have 2 pretty good reasons; thats the way it was intended and guys suck that don't make it within 3 years?

I still think waiting until we declare rookies after the 3rd pre season is a viable alternative. What's so bad about giving guys and extra off season to make it if that would seldom come into play?

They've already had 3 full off-seasons (counting the draft year) as well as 3 full regular seasons. The TS is for 3 years period.

At some point teams need to make decisions, in the Frenzy, that's April 1st for TS players entering their 4th year.

[Burt the Butcher]

So its not really 3 FULL years being on our roster? They are not put on our TS or Active squad until August....why are we being jipped out of 5 full months and one full preseason?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

So its not really 3 FULL years being on our roster? They are not put on our TS or Active squad until August....why are we being jipped out of 5 full months and one full preseason?

No, they have 3 contract years to be on the TS, starting with the draft as year 1. They are not being gyped of a pre-season, or even an off-season for that matter:

Year 1 - DRAFTED, Pre-Season, Regular-Season
Year 2 - Pre-Season, Regular-Season
Year 3 - Pre-Season, Regular-Season

Your asking for a 4th pre-season, which is NOT what the THREE year Taxi-squad was designed to be for. It is for 3 CONTRACT years, max. You're asking for an additional 4-5 months INTO the 4th contract year, sorry, but shit or get off the pot on a player heading into his 4th year. The TS was NOT designed to be for 4-5 years, that is why we created the Practice Squad to allow deeper prospects time to develop.

[Bounty Hunter]

If the 2103 rookies are on our taxi squads now most of us would be over the limits and making cuts now instead of waiting until we make declarations.

The purpose of this thread was to discuss the issue and get everyones input for a possible vote on changing the date we promote/cut the taxi guys.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Bounty Hunter

If the 2103 rookies are on our taxi squads now most of us would be over the limits and making cuts now instead of waiting until we make declarations.

The purpose of this thread was to discuss the issue and get everyones input for a possible vote on changing the date we promote/cut the taxi guys.

Are you still arguing for this? Seriously? You already get 3 full seasons to evaluate a player before they must become a part of your active roster or be released by April 1st. It's as simple as that.

You're arguing for ADDITIONAL time which puts them well past 3 years under your teams control. We created the Taxi Squad for a 3 year max. Period. Everything is contract year based in Frenzy. You're asking to go 1/3 of the way into the 4th contract year to give you the convenience to FURTHER weigh your options.

You're asking for what I consider to be a major deviation from the way we crafted this part of the league, and I honestly see ZERO reason for it. We gave 3 full seasons. That's it, end of story. Beyond that might as well make the TS 4 years or 5, or whatever whimsical extended period you need since you're totally disregarding the structure that was firmly established by intention.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Anyone can post a rules change vote for anything... no worries.

[The Knights of Ni]

So are we getting the extra time? I can see we have a small difference of opinion.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Anyone can post a rules change vote for anything... no worries.

That may be true, but when it's a BAD suggestion it needs to be discussed, particularly one that cuts into the heart of the development side of the league.

[Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by Soap Box Derby Car

So are we getting the extra time? I can see we have a small difference of opinion.

Depends on if enough of us want it if it comes to a vote.

[Burt the Butcher]

Tell us what you really think Mike...no need to belittle people because you feel strongly about it...its not a whimsical off the seat of the pants thought...it ties into when we assign rookies to the slots needed by removing the players entering their 4th year, which also ties into when you actually assign their contracts....it makes sense in that aspect, but its really not THAT big a deal....just something thrown out to get the leagues thoughts...you have made yours clear....thanks...

[The Knights of Ni]

I can see both sides. But I tend to lean towards how it is written now as in my opinion there is ample time to make that decision. As an example, the RB from ATL (can't think of his name now) was at that point last year. I had to make the decision to cut him or put him on my active roster. I decided to put him on the active roster just in case he became more apart of the offense in ATL but I could have cut him. Neither decision would have killed my team. These are decisions that we have to make as owners but I don't think that many of these decisions will make or break a team. I would vote, if it came up to a vote, to leave as is.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Tell us what you really think Mike...no need to belittle people because you feel strongly about it...its not a whimsical off the seat of the pants thought...it ties into when we assign rookies to the slots needed by removing the players entering their 4th year, which also ties into when you actually assign their contracts....it makes sense in that aspect, but its really not THAT big a deal....just something thrown out to get the leagues thoughts...you have made yours clear....thanks...

Sorry but your request is a major deviation from the original intent and design of the structure of the TS. It deserves strong words because it is purely an attempt to grab MORE time to evaluate players and keep them off the UFA market. You're seeking to go into 1/3 of their 4th contract year and 4 full off-seasons to evaluate a player whose decision should be made up within 3 years. When we designed the TS, we were very clear that it was to be for 3 years, and that was because we didn't want players kept off the open market too long without any consequence.

[Burt the Butcher]

Fair enough, and good point...it would keep the players off the current off season UFA market....that I think is a major point against....

[Liquid Swords]

I think it should stay as-is. The August declaration deadline is for NEW player contracts (via RFA, UFA, draft), not existing contracts.

Plus teams have already had three years of evaluation and should know whether they are active roster material or not. If teams are on the fence, they can move them to active (or let them automatically be moved to active) and then cut them later if needed (of course at a cost)

[Preds]

Revisiting this, I thought it'd be worth noting that I have 2 players I need to make this decision on (Shane Vereen and Vincent Brown) that are not easy answers.

As you may recall I fought hard that the rule shouldn't be changed or extended till August.

They've had 3 years to make a definitive impact to make the choice easy, but neither have. Would another off-season be nice, sure would, I'd wager the picture would be much clearer then, BUT, that would be putting them 1/3 of the way into their 4th year.

As difficult as it makes my own personal decision between now and April 1st on these players, I STILL think they've had their 3 years and it's time for me to make a call without the advantage of a 4th pre-season of evidence.

SOOOO, anyone want to trade for Vincent Brown or Shane Vereen so I don't have to make a call?