Rule Discusssion - QB RFA Tenders

[Preds]

As I mentioned in my RFA tender post, I think the QB tenders are out of whack with the current salaries of QB's in the Frenzy in recent years and should be adjusted to reflect more realistic numbers.

The current RFA tender scale for QB's is
1200 1st
800 2nd
400 3rd
200 4th

In 2012, all but 3 QB's made less than the 1st rd tender (2 of whom are RFA's in 2013) and not a single QB in 2012 after those 3 made the 800 required for a 2nd round tender (the closest was Tony Romo at 733).

I propose that the QB tender numbers be adjusted downwards. Something more like:
900 1st (3 qb's in 2012 made over 900)
600 2nd (6 qb's in 2012 made from 600-899)
300 3rd (12 qb's in 2012 made from 300-599)
150 4th (8 qb's in 2012 made from 150-299)

The proposed scale seems more in line with what realistic QB salaries in the Frenzy are these days and would encourage more realistic tendering and RFA bidding and match/decline decisions IMO.

[Burt the Butcher]

I would like to see how other positions are in comparison....is it only QB that is out of whack? Obviously DEF is not close to market value...if we adjust one, I would prefer we look at all of them...

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

I would like to see how other positions are in comparison....is it only QB that is out of whack? Obviously DEF is not close to market value...if we adjust one, I would prefer we look at all of them...

K & D were designed to intentionally be out of whack, the reason being we didn't want teams tagging K's and D's and getting 1st or 2nd round comps out of them, thus we made those tender levels exceedingly high.

The skill position players were designed to be more realistic with player value, particularly with tenders for rounds 2, 3 and 4. The 1sts were supposed to be high and only grab the TOP tier elite players and put them at or near market value.

The 2nd round tenders are too high for QB's for sure, probably a tad high for RB as well, the numbers work for WR and TE IMO.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I think I'd be open for adjusting QBs down a notch. We adjusted RBs a few years ago, when it seemed out of whack. I think the rest of the positions are okay. Might have to make this a "for 2014 RFA" vote, as I'm not sure we could get the entire league to vote within 11 days...

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

K & D were designed to intentionally be out of whack, the reason being we didn't want teams tagging K's and D's and getting 1st or 2nd round comps out of them, thus we made those tender levels exceedingly high.

I can live with that.

Originally Posted by Preds

The skill position players were designed to be more realistic with player value, particularly with tenders for rounds 2, 3 and 4. The 1sts were supposed to be high and only grab the TOP tier elite players and put them at or near market value.

Makes sense

Originally Posted by Preds

The 2nd round tenders are too high for QB's for sure, probably a tad high for RB as well, the numbers work for WR and TE IMO.

How about some numbers to back this statement up?

[Preds]

2012 QB Salaries

1676 - Rodgers
1250 - Vick
1210 - Brees
-----------
733 - Romo
721 - P Manning
663 - Newton
633 - Phillips
610 - Ryan
605 - E Manning
-----------
571 - Sanchez
550 - Schaub
545 - Brady
513 - Stafford
-----------
433 - Bradford
411 - Roesthlisburger
390 - Luck
385 - Ponder
380 - Griffin
325 - Cutler
322 - Freeman
300 - Flacco

2011 Salaries are an even bigger gap
1574 - Rodgers
1100 - Brees
-----------
666 - Romo
-----------
575 - Phillips
534 - Kolb
523 - Vick
520 - E Manning
513 - Ryan
500 - Schaub
-----------
495 - Brady
451 - Sanchez
450 - Cutler
-----------
394 - Bradford
375 - Stafford
374 - Roesthlisburger
350 - Ponder
341 - Tebow
330 - Newton
-----------
293 - Freeman
280 - Palmer
270 - Gabbert
266 - Flacco
240 - Campbell
240 - Fitzpatrick
230 - Dalton
201 - McCoy
200 - Locker

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

As I mentioned in my RFA tender post, I think the QB tenders are out of whack with the current salaries of QB's in the Frenzy in recent years and should be adjusted to reflect more realistic numbers.

The current RFA tender scale for QB's is
1200 1st
800 2nd
400 3rd
200 4th

In 2012, all but 3 QB's made less than the 1st rd tender (2 of whom are RFA's in 2013) and not a single QB in 2012 after those 3 made the 800 required for a 2nd round tender (the closest was Tony Romo at 733).

I propose that the QB tender numbers be adjusted downwards. Something more like:
900 1st (3 qb's in 2012 made over 900)
600 2nd (6 qb's in 2012 made from 600-899)
300 3rd (12 qb's in 2012 made from 300-599)
150 4th (8 qb's in 2012 made from 150-299)

The proposed scale seems more in line with what realistic QB salaries in the Frenzy are these days and would encourage more realistic tendering and RFA bidding and match/decline decisions IMO.

These are the numbers I was looking for:

RB
2400 - 2
1600 - 4
800 - 16
400 - 26

WR
1800 - 8
1200 - 1
600 - 15
300 - 31

So realistically, QB levels are pretty much in line with RB and WR. I guess it depends on what you want out of RFA compensation...I personally think there are too many high level comp picks - compare to NFL this year..no one had anything higher than a 4th round comp.

But this is not NFL, so I don't expect it to be Parnell in everything.

But my point above was, lets not JUST adjust QB's because it affects one persons declarations. Let's look at the system as a whole.

I think its fine myself, but I will absolutely not vote on a rule change to just one Position, when its in line with the other top impact positions.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

That makes sense, Burt.
At this point, let's keep 2013 RFA declaration values as is.
But this is an EXCELLENT TIME to start looking at the overall values for every position.

Let's "crowd source" this here. What figures would people suggest? Hopefully we can come to some consensus here before putting it to the decisive vote.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

These are the numbers I was looking for:

RB
2400 - 2
1600 - 4
800 - 16
400 - 26

WR
1800 - 8
1200 - 1
600 - 15
300 - 31

So realistically, QB levels are pretty much in line with RB and WR. I guess it depends on what you want out of RFA compensation...I personally think there are too many high level comp picks - compare to NFL this year..no one had anything higher than a 4th round comp.

But this is not NFL, so I don't expect it to be Parnell in everything.

But my point above was, lets not JUST adjust QB's because it affects one persons declarations. Let's look at the system as a whole.

I think its fine myself, but I will absolutely not vote on a rule change to just one Position, when its in line with the other top impact positions.

The QB breakdown is

2012
1200 - 3
800 - 0
400 - 12
200 - 7

2011
1200 - 2
800 - 0
400 - 10
200 - 15

I can understand an argument not to mess with the top tier, but the 2nd tier is WAY our of whack for QB's, and that's what I feel most needs to be addressed.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

So maybe for QBs, altering the top two tiers from 12K/8K to maybe 10K/6K... and keeping the 3rd & 4th tiers the same?

[Burt the Butcher]

I think that would make it too easy...my feeling is, you should REALLY have to think about giving a 1st round tender...right now, we seem to want to just give them away. Same with 2nd rounder.

I think 1200+ is acceptable level to be giving guys like Rogers, Brees, Brady, PManning and Ryan....why make it a no brainer? Unless the whole object of RFA is to have loads of 1st and 2nd comp picks?

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

I think that would make it too easy...my feeling is, you should REALLY have to think about giving a 1st round tender...right now, we seem to want to just give them away. Same with 2nd rounder.

I think 1200+ is acceptable level to be giving guys like Rogers, Brees, Brady, PManning and Ryan....why make it a no brainer? Unless the whole object of RFA is to have loads of 1st and 2nd comp picks?

I agree. I would actually be more in favor of keeping QBs as they are, raising WR tenders to something along the lines of 2000/1400/800/500, and raising the lower RB tenders so they are more along the lines of 2400/1600/1000/600. I should look at TEs to because they probably need raised too in my opinion.

[Preds]

Zero QB's falling in the range of 2nd round tenders for two years in a row is a major flaw IMO.

Change the QB 2nd Rd tender to 600 and leave the 1sts at 1200. The 2nd round tender is the glaring deficiency, I can live with the others.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I could agree to that, Mike.
Good point, Burt, about not making 1st round tenders too easy to choose.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

I could agree to that, Mike.
Good point, Burt, about not making 1st round tenders too easy to choose.

Good, put it up for a vote! I think we can still get this vote done before all tenders are due 4/1.

[Burt the Butcher]

Just make it anonymous...don't want Mike getting pissed at me when I vote no ;-)

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Not so fast, sparky... I want to make sure others don't have issues with other positions that might need to be tweaked.

Anything else need to be addressed re: RFA tenders, folks?

[Burt the Butcher]

Seems the others are close enough with QB as it is now, with exception of level 2...maybe we should jack up level 2 on RB and WR to get them down closer to zero?

Kidding...