**CLOSED due to REVISION** Proposal - Bottom 6 Draft Seeding Bracket (DSB) for the 1st 6 draft picks

[Preds]

This proposal would create a bottom 6 playoff bracket where the 6 non-playoff teams would be seeded in reverse order in a bracket to play for the draft positioning. With this setup, seeds 6-3 would have to win 3 games to earn the #1 seed in the draft, whereas the 2 worst teams would only have to win 2 games, The idea is to incentivize all teams to remain as competitive as possible throughout the season and reward them for winning their bracket with better draft positioning since you have to win to get the top picks. This also extends the season so that everyone has a playoffs, either for the trophy or the top seed.

Byes will be given to the 11th and 12th placed teams and they will be seeded 1 & 2 in the Draft Seeding Bracket. This ensures that the 2 worst teams can't fall more than 3 draft slots. It also means the bottom 2 teams only need to win 1 game to guarantee a top 2 pick and 2 games for the #1 overall.

The rest of the bracket will be seeded with the 7th best team seeded 6 against the 9th best team which will be seeded 4, and the 8th best team seeded 5 against the 10th best team which will be seeded 3.

Tie-breakers for seeding the Draft Seeding Bracket will be the same as the Frenzy/SACD Bowl Brackets (just in reverse). Thus the brackets will be set up in reverse order for both seeding and who the teams will face each week to give the worst teams the best chance to advance. HFA will apply to the higher seed as applicable in Frenzy.


Draft Seeding Bracket (DSB) in summary:

DSB Seeding Breakdown

• 1 seed - non-playoff team with the 12th best record
• 2 seed - non-playoff team with the 11th best record
• 3 seed - non-playoff team with the 10th best record
• 4 seed - non-playoff team with the 9th best record
• 5 seed - non-playoff team with the 8th best record
• 6 seed - non-playoff team with the 7th best record

DSB Week 1 (NFL week 15)

• BYE 1 seed (12th overall)
• BYE 2 seed (11th overall)
• 5 seed (8th overall) at 3 seed (10th overall)
• 6 seed (7th overall) at 4 seed (9th overall)

Losing teams will be seeded 5th and 6th in the draft (with the higher seed getting the better pick). For example if the 3rd seed and 6th seed lost this week, the 6 seed would get the 5th pick in the draft and the 3 seed would get the 6th pick.

DSB Week 2 (NFL week 16)

• highest remaining seed at 1 seed (12th overall)
• lowest remaining seed at 2 seed (11th overall)

The losing teams will be seeded 3rd and 4th in the draft (with the higher seed getting the better pick).

For example in the wk1 scenario above the 5 seed would face the 1 seed and the 4 seed would face the 2 seed. If seeds 1 and 4 were to win, the losing 2 seed would get the 3rd pick in the draft and the losing 5 seed would get the 4th pick in the draft.

DSB Week 3 (NFL week 16)

• lowest remaining seed at highest remaining seed

Winner gets the 1st pick, loser gets the 2nd. In this case say the 4 seed beats the 1 seed, the 4th seed would get the #1 pick in the draft while the 1 seed would get the #2 pick.

Once seeding is assigned from the DSB bracket, that seeding will apply to ALL rounds of the draft.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Is the thoughts behind this to prevent "tanking for Tua" type ownership?
I'm going to be drafting in the top 2 spots for the 2nd time in a row.
I can tell you 100% I haven't been tanking (and I know you're not suggesting I am at all).
So much of FF is about luck. Yes, building good teams is important... but there's such a luck factor.
I'd hate to have a team try hard all season... and get more than their share of bad luck in the regular season... then have to "not be unlucky" in the "playoffs" as well.

I'm leaning towards voting no... but I'll wait to hear what others think first.

[wchmego]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Is the thoughts behind this to prevent "tanking for Tua" type ownership?
I'm going to be drafting in the top 2 spots for the 2nd time in a row.
I can tell you 100% I haven't been tanking (and I know you're not suggesting I am at all).
So much of FF is about luck. Yes, building good teams is important... but there's such a luck factor.
I'd hate to have a team try hard all season... and get more than their share of bad luck in the regular season... then have to "not be unlucky" in the "playoffs" as well.

I'm leaning towards voting no... but I'll wait to hear what others think first.

This does basically prevent "tanking", but more importantly gives ALL teams a reason to remain active for the entire season. No reason to check out when you know you still have something to play for.


I know for me, when I have been out of the playoff hunt, I am rooting for my team to lose to get a better pick (even though I put my best players in). With this, I can root for my team to win! Let's encourage winning and making it a fun FULL season for all!

[Burt the Butcher]

Might this encourage teams with decent but not great team, who is on the fence between winning last game and making playoffs (with virtually no shot to win the championship) or losing last game and go into losers bracket with MUCH better chance to run the board and get pick 1.1?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Might this encourage teams with decent but not great team, who is on the fence between winning last game and making playoffs (with virtually no shot to win the championship) or losing last game and go into losers bracket with MUCH better chance to run the board and get pick 1.1?

I suppose that could be a possibility, but even if a team did stoop to that level, they're not guaranteed to actually move up. They could just as easily be one and done in the first round and drafting 6th with no shot at the title.

The idea is to encourage the bottom teams to stay active, and thus to make it harder on teams that might attempt something like this. I think keeping the bottom 4-5 teams more interested outweighs one team possibly trying to make a run at the 1 seed in lieu of the playoffs.

I suppose we could counter activity such as this bay making in such that no team can move up higher than 3 seeds or drop lower than 3 seeds)?

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

I suppose that could be a possibility, but even if a team did stoop to that level, they're not guaranteed to actually move up. They could just as easily be one and done in the first round and drafting 6th with no shot at the title.

The idea is to encourage the bottom teams to stay active, and thus to make it harder on teams that might attempt something like this. I think keeping the bottom 4-5 teams more interested outweighs one team possibly trying to make a run at the 1 seed in lieu of the playoffs.

I suppose we could counter activity such as this bay making in such that no team can move up higher than 3 seeds or drop lower than 3 seeds)?

Personally, I think it should be limited to bottom 4 teams, and no one moves more than 2 spots. There are times where teams are good enough to make playoffs, but lose out cuz they lost one game H2H...
I would vote yes on that - otherwise, I will vote no on the current poll

[wchmego]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Personally, I think it should be limited to bottom 4 teams, and no one moves more than 2 spots. There are times where teams are good enough to make playoffs, but lose out cuz they lost one game H2H...
I would vote yes on that - otherwise, I will vote no on the current poll

The way it is proposed, the worst the 1st seed would pick is 3rd overall, since they have the bye, in the first week, and the 12th best record.



That is IF they lose the first game. If not, they move to the week 3 DSB game and will get the 1st or 2nd overall pick.



Mike, this really is AWESOME!!!

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Personally, I think it should be limited to bottom 4 teams, and no one moves more than 2 spots. There are times where teams are good enough to make playoffs, but lose out cuz they lost one game H2H...
I would vote yes on that - otherwise, I will vote no on the current poll

I think it should be open to all non-playoff teams.

I can see putting a curb in restricting movement up or down to no more than 3 spots. That means the original 6 seed could draft no higher than 3, and the 1 and 2 seeds no lower than 4 (which was already structured into the original proposal bu giving 1 and 2 seeds the byes).

With a 3 spot max move, only the bottom 4 teams have a shot at the 1 seed. The 6 seed could only get as high as 3 and the 5th seed as high as 2. I think that should sufficiently address your concerns.

1 seed could draft from 1 to 3 (since if they lose after the bye week they will get the 3 seed)
2 seed could draft from 1 to 4
3 seed could draft from 1 to 6
4 seed could draft from 1 to 6
5 seed could draft from 2 to 6
6 seed could draft from 3 to 6

That's still considerably weighted towards the bottom 4 teams (not to mention the byes which guarantee 1 and 2 draft no lower than 4).

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I like this proposal better. A #6 team who was just on the cusp of the playoffs could have a WAY better team than the bottom two... and could EASILY become the #1 overall pick for the next season.

I'd support this.

[Preds]

I'd like to see feedback from a couple other teams before rewriting the proposal. Sounds like we're getting close to a consensus on an agreeable form of instituting a DSB.

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Originally Posted by Preds

T

The rest of the bracket will be seeded with the 7th best team seeded 6 against the 10th best team which will be seeded 3, and the 8th best team seeded 5 against the 9th best team which will be seeded 4.


DSB Week 1 (NFL week 15)

• BYE 1 seed (12th overall)
• BYE 2 seed (11th overall)
• 5 seed (8th overall) at 3 seed (10th overall)
• 6 seed (7th overall) at 4 seed (9th overall)

I think you have something worded wrong here...
In one place you state Seed 6 vs Seed 3 and Seed 5 vs Seed4
In the other place you state 5 vs 3 and 6 vs 4.
Need to correct one of these ..

[Preds]

Originally Posted by A Zombie Pirate I Be

I think you have something worded wrong here...
In one place you state Seed 6 vs Seed 3 and Seed 5 vs Seed4
In the other place you state 5 vs 3 and 6 vs 4.
Need to correct one of these ..

I may have mixed them up, thanks for catching it, I'll fix it.

I want it setup so that the 3 seed (10th best team overall) faces the least best team (same for the 1 seed in the next round). In this case both of what you listed avove should read the 3 seed faces the 5 seed (8th best team overall), while the 4 seed (9th best team overall) would play the 6th seed (which should be the 7th best team overall).

The idea is to give the least resistance to the 1 seed and 3 seed in those 2 rounds to give them a better chance to advance against a possibly significantly stronger team.

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Personally, I think it should be limited to bottom 4 teams, and no one moves more than 2 spots. There are times where teams are good enough to make playoffs, but lose out cuz they lost one game H2H...
I would vote yes on that - otherwise, I will vote no on the current poll

I agree with Burt. I don't mind this new rule, if limiting it to the bottom 4 teams. I don't necessarily like taking the bottom 6 in to fight for a top seed.

This would also keep the draft seed bracket at the first two weeks of the playoffs and put the Championship game in the spotlight by being the only game in the final week.

My initial thought was same as Burt, where a strong team could just miss out on the playoffs due to a bit of bad luck. That gives a potential 8-6 or 7-7 team going in against teams with 4 wins or less to get the #1 pick.

The 2021 season would place the 6th DSB in the playoffs with 100 All Play wins and a weekly average of 146. The bottom 4 teams averaged 62 All Play wins and an average weekly score of 124. That is quite a disparity and gives a big advantage to the 6th seed.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by A Zombie Pirate I Be

I agree with Burt. I don't mind this new rule, if limiting it to the bottom 4 teams. I don't necessarily like taking the bottom 6 in to fight for a top seed.

This would also keep the draft seed bracket at the first two weeks of the playoffs and put the Championship game in the spotlight by being the only game in the final week.

My initial thought was same as Burt, where a strong team could just miss out on the playoffs due to a bit of bad luck. That gives a potential 8-6 or 7-7 team going in against teams with 4 wins or less to get the #1 pick.

The 2021 season would place the 6th DSB in the playoffs with 100 All Play wins and a weekly average of 146. The bottom 4 teams averaged 62 All Play wins and an average weekly score of 124. That is quite a disparity and gives a big advantage to the 6th seed.

Which is why we've been discussing modifying the proposal to limit any seed moving up more than 3 spots. There are also curbs built in that prevent the 1 seed from dropping below 3, and the 2 seed from dropping below 4.

If there is enough agreement with the proposed modification I'll rewrite and post a revised proposal to include the curbs on how far the 5 and 6 teams could move up to no higher than the 2 or 3 seeds respectively.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Once the modification happens to the proposal... I'll vote for it! ;)

[Burt the Butcher]

OK, I can get behind no team moving more than 2 spots, so the lowest the worst team can move is to 1.3, and the highest best team can move is to 1.4.

I also like seeding in reverse, so worst team will always face next worse team in each round.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I think I like the reverse seeding idea as well...

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

OK, I can get behind no team moving more than 2 spots, so the lowest the worst team can move is to 1.3, and the highest best team can move is to 1.4.

I also like seeding in reverse, so worst team will always face next worse team in each round.

The reverse seeding is what I setup, I just didn't clarify it as simply as you just did!

[A Zombie Pirate I Be]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

OK, I can get behind no team moving more than 2 spots, so the lowest the worst team can move is to 1.3, and the highest best team can move is to 1.4.

I also like seeding in reverse, so worst team will always face next worse team in each round.

I don't see, in the updated writeup where there is a limit of moving 2 spots. The way written, the 6th seed can win out and claim the #1 pick.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by A Zombie Pirate I Be

I don't see, in the updated writeup where there is a limit of moving 2 spots. The way written, the 6th seed can win out and claim the #1 pick.

Maybe I'm missing something.

Burt is pushing for a 2 spot max to move up or down.

I think we should allow a max of 3 spots to move up or down which means the 6 seed could get no higher than the 3rd pick, the 5 seed no higher than 2nd pick, and seeds 1-4 all would have a shot at the 1st pick. As it's written the 1 seed can't drop lower than 3, and the 2 seed can't drop lower than 4. Seeds 3 & 4 could finish anywhere from 1 to 6. I think it's a pretty good setup with a 3 spot max move up or down,

[wchmego]

Originally Posted by Preds

Burt is pushing for a 2 spot max to move up or down.

I think we should allow a max of 3 spots to move up or down which means the 6 seed could get no higher than the 3rd pick, the 5 seed no higher than 2nd pick, and seeds 1-4 all would have a shot at the 1st pick. As it's written the 1 seed can't drop lower than 3, and the 2 seed can't drop lower than 4. Seeds 3 & 4 could finish anywhere from 1 to 6. I think it's a pretty good setup with a 3 spot max move up or down,

I like this, it still keeps the bottom 6 teams active for the whole season.