FA Smack Talk

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

that's fine... the best 15 dollars ever spent

20% would be 30cb's

Burt's being a bit hard on this IMO, I woulda let it slide and voided it, but Burt's the man in control. His call rules.

Now just gotta make sure I don't go bidding on Mike Tomlinson or something.

[Flaxwless]

Doh!

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Doh!

didya see my edit above?

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Preds

didya see my edit above?

Just now... but whatever... it's 30 cbs.

I have a great cap situation.. basically 2k to spend on defense and a couple of back up IOPs.

[Doggler]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Just now... but whatever... it's 30 cbs.

I have a great cap situation.. basically 2k to spend on defense and a couple of back up IOPs.

Glad to hear yours is great. Mine is terrible, I only have about 9k left.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Doggler

Glad to hear yours is great. Mine is terrible, I only have about 9k left.

Yeah, but your team sucks.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Preds

Yeah, but your team sucks.

SACD Bowl Runner Up + 2k Capspace after adding Torry Holt and Steve Smith = GREAT CAP SITUATION!

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Preds

20% would be 30cb's

Burt's being a bit hard on this IMO, I woulda let it slide and voided it, but Burt's the man in control. His call rules.

Now just gotta make sure I don't go bidding on Mike Tomlinson or something.

Oh sure...easy to sit back and take that stance now...

But hey, I am a rookie at this, so I can be flexible. Since he is not with a team, I guess I can see that it could have been a mistake. I'm not sure I buy it, that you were thinking you were bidding on Viniteri. But since you bid on an FA without a team, I'll chalk it up as a brain fart. Since this is the first time, we can assume it won't start a trend. I'll go ahead and void the bid on Jeff.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

SACD Bowl Runner Up + 2k Capspace after adding Torry Holt and Steve Smith = GREAT CAP SITUATION!

I was referring to Doggs team sucking.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Oh sure...easy to sit back and take that stance now...

But hey, I am a rookie at this, so I can be flexible. Since he is not with a team, I guess I can see that it could have been a mistake. I'm not sure I buy it, that you were thinking you were bidding on Viniteri. But since you bid on an FA without a team, I'll chalk it up as a brain fart. Since this is the first time, we can assume it won't start a trend. I'll go ahead and void the bid on Jeff.

Burt, this was your call. You have support on whichever decision you made.

And yes, it is WAY easier not having to be the heavy!

[Burt the Butcher]

moneybags strikes again....

[Philadelphia Freedom]

We really need to look at the rookie salaries. We have veteran LB's who have solid NFL (&FF) creditentials going for less than what we are paying rookie LB's. Can we make sure that addressing this happens prior to next years draft? Thanks!

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

We really need to look at the rookie salaries. We have veteran LB's who have solid NFL (&FF) creditentials going for less than what we are paying rookie LB's. Can we make sure that addressing this happens prior to next years draft? Thanks!

Agreed. I think all three of the defensive positions needs to be moved down, at least their starting salaries. I think the bonuses are OK, at least until they start kicking in and we see some issues.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Agreed. I think all three of the defensive positions needs to be moved down, at least their starting salaries. I think the bonuses are OK, at least until they start kicking in and we see some issues.

Or maybe people could adjust and draft rookie IDPs later? Brilliant idea, IMO.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Or maybe people could adjust and draft rookie IDPs later? Brilliant idea, IMO.

IDP salaries for rooks are out of whack. You shouldnt have to wait till rounds 5 and 6 to draft IDP's. Our goal should be to have all positions well scattered throughout the draft.

To me, lower all the IDP starting values a good amount, keep the bonuses and move along.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Preds

IDP salaries for rooks are out of whack. You shouldnt have to wait till rounds 5 and 6 to draft IDP's. Our goal should be to have all positions well scattered throughout the draft.

To me, lower all the IDP starting values a good amount, keep the bonuses and move along.

I guess I'm just tired of all this constant changing when things don't go as planned. Observe. Adapt. I sure as hell did after drafting so many IDPs in 06 (ernie simms 2nd round) and then shiffting to this year with my IDPs (1st IDP Quincy Black 6th round).

But whatever.. you can lower the prices (since all the other positions od get discounts) and I'll still wait until UFA to fill my IDP needs.

[smsmith40]

As I've said before, IDPs in this league aren't that valuable, drafting them in the first 2-3 rounds just doesn't make sense to me if you are only starting two at each position. The FA prices make much more sense to me than the rookie scale.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by smsmith40

As I've said before, IDPs in this league aren't that valuable, drafting them in the first 2-3 rounds just doesn't make sense to me if you are only starting two at each position. The FA prices make much more sense to me than the rookie scale.

Agreed.

So let's let them adjust rookie prices if they want... doesn't change ho I'm going to draft IDPs.

Then again... was Demaco Ryans and Ernie Simms last year over priced or undervalued?

[smsmith40]

ME either, the relative salaries are too high compared to RBs but that should just be relected in your draft strategies, I don't feel too much sympathy for somebody who is complaining cos the LB he drafted with the 18th pick looks overvalued.

Don't pick an LB there at all, to my mind there is no upside taking IDPs so high, even if he turns out to be DeMeco Ryans come again you still haven't got a bargain and there will haave been guys just as good avilable in FA.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by smsmith40

ME either, the relative salaries are too high compared to RBs but that should just be relected in your draft strategies, I don't feel too much sympathy for somebody who is complaining cos the LB he drafted with the 18th pick looks overvalued.

Don't pick an LB there at all, to my mind there is no upside taking IDPs so high, even if he turns out to be DeMeco Ryans come again you still haven't got a bargain and there will haave been guys just as good avilable in FA.

Exactly. Draft strategies. People are complaining LBs are too high... well then don't spend a pick on them. Let some other shmuck waste their pick on an overvalued LB...if everyone does it and LBs start getting picked a round or two later their prices should be more inline with FA prices which have shown the true value of LB and then we don't have to fix anything at all.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Exactly. Draft strategies. People are complaining LBs are too high... well then don't spend a pick on them. Let some other shmuck waste their pick on an overvalued LB...if everyone does it and LBs start getting picked a round or two later their prices should be more inline with FA prices which have shown the true value of LB and then we don't have to fix anything at all.

What a load of crap!! The top 10 WR prices this year range from 3300 to 2000. The top 10 LB prices range from 1271 to 600. And you're saying it makes sense to pay a 1.1 WR a salary of 400, and pay the 1.1 LB salary of 495? How does that even come near to being in line to anything. Drafting should be having the ability to select the best player available, which is why I grudingly payed 350 for Patrick Willis rather than taking Mike Walker or Jacoby Jones with the same pick. Willis will be a valuable starter, while Walker or Jones will be lucky to see any significant playing time this year or next. How is taking either of them over Willis solid draft strategy?

[Nittany Dodgers]

The whole point of the rookie scale was to give a more equal value of positions in the draft, and give some kind of disincentive for teams to do nothing but reach for RBs at the top and throughout the draft. The way it is currently constructed, there is no disincentive for that, but a disincentive to draft IDP early.

There's always going to be teams that don't put much into their IDPs, and that's fine. There are teams that don't go for big buck tight ends, and some that would rather get a middle of the road QB, and save the money for other positions. There are a million different strategies and no one is saying anyone has to pick any particular one. But, I don't think the rookie salary scale should be so prohibitive for some positions, and have next to zero salary cap impact for others.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I agree with Brian here. I thought the point of the rookie scale was to try and provide incentive for players to be picked more equally by position. I agree that we can apply strategy all we want but for the most part we have a lot of overpriced young LB's and going forward (ie 2008 draft and beyond) it would seem to make sense to try and correct that.

[Flaxwless]

Whatever you guys want. Just saying all this constant tweaking gets annoying when it can be corrected w/o changing the system if everyone drafted by value. Everyone sees that rookie LB are overvalued in th early stages, so pick based on that.

However, like I said... I'm not for or against changing the rookie scale like I said I doubt I will be drafting IDPs with early picks anymore. If altering the rookie scale helps you guys feel good about wasting a 1st or 2nd round pick on the LBs be my guest.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Whatever you guys want. Just saying all this constant tweaking gets annoying when it can be corrected w/o changing the system if everyone drafted by value. Everyone sees that rookie LB are overvalued in th early stages, so pick based on that.

However, like I said... I'm not for or against changing the rookie scale like I said I doubt I will be drafting IDPs with early picks anymore. If altering the rookie scale helps you guys feel good about wasting a 1st or 2nd round pick on the LBs be my guest.

Just so there's no confusion about self interest, I'm not proposing our changes are backdated. I think we did that once or twice in the Frenzy, and in retrospect, I don't think that was a good idea. I think the changes need to be on a go-forward basis and not retroactive.

I'm not sure if that is where the attitude is coming from, or you just have a problem in general with making things better. I'm not sure how this gets annoying for you when you've put in, what, zero effort into creating/tweaking the scales over the years? How cumbersome that must have been for you.

[Preds]

Didn't we establish the initial scales for SACD with the full knowledge that we'd be tweaking a couple years down the line once we had some free market data to work with?

The idea of adjusting the rookie salaries was all part of the original plan as I recall it. We knew we had little to go by initially, and that the numbers would need work.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Just so there's no confusion about self interest, I'm not proposing our changes are backdated. I think we did that once or twice in the Frenzy, and in retrospect, I don't think that was a good idea. I think the changes need to be on a go-forward basis and not retroactive.

I'm not sure if that is where the attitude is coming from, or you just have a problem in general with making things better. I'm not sure how this gets annoying for you when you've put in, what, zero effort into creating/tweaking the scales over the years? How cumbersome that must have been for you.

Just to make it official, I'll post a poll for this and the changing of positions before the season starts for rookies. And no, we will not be back-posting salaries based on the changes we make, if we do make them. That would not be fair to those who passed up a pick based on the salary scale.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Just to make it official, I'll post a poll for this and the changing of positions before the season starts for rookies. And no, we will not be back-posting salaries based on the changes we make, if we do make them. That would not be fair to those who passed up a pick based on the salary scale.

To be fair, when we backdated in the Frenzy, it was because we did a MAJOR overhaul of the rookie scales AND implemented the bonus scale that had not been in place.

Plus I believe it only impacted 1 prior Frenzy rookie draft (maybe 2).

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Just so there's no confusion about self interest, I'm not proposing our changes are backdated. I think we did that once or twice in the Frenzy, and in retrospect, I don't think that was a good idea. I think the changes need to be on a go-forward basis and not retroactive.

I'm not sure if that is where the attitude is coming from, or you just have a problem in general with making things better. I'm not sure how this gets annoying for you when you've put in, what, zero effort into creating/tweaking the scales over the years? How cumbersome that must have been for you.

The attitude isn't coming from anywhere.... actually trying to make it easier for you. Everyone sees LBs are overvalued at the current scale bonuses... so just draft them later. No need to tweak anything, also when do we stop tweaking? That's all.

Like I said I could care less if you guys adjust the scale because barring a signifcant drop in intial salries I still think it's a waste to draft IDPs early.

The scale bonus is your baby and I thank you for the time an effort spent in it. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the way IDPs are priced in the early rounds.... just suggesting the path of least change where the scale remains untouched and people change their draft strategies accordingly.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

The attitude isn't coming from anywhere.... actually trying to make it easier for you. Everyone sees LBs are overvalued at the current scale bonuses... so just draft them later. No need to tweak anything, also when do we stop tweaking? That's all.

Like I said I could care less if you guys adjust the scale because barring a signifcant drop in intial salries I still think it's a waste to draft IDPs early.

The scale bonus is your baby and I thank you for the time an effort spent in it. I'm not saying there isn't a problem with the way IDPs are priced in the early rounds.... just suggesting the path of least change where the scale remains untouched and people change their draft strategies accordingly.

You seem to forget that we established the scale with the full intent of modifying it once we had data to work with to establish bases.