IR question - feedback needed

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Please read the following thread... and help weigh in on something. Tonight's deadline is pressing...

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Now that Colt Brennan has been put on IR by the Redskins... I have another FRENZY IR question...

Can I put Colt on the IR from the TS squad (thereby opening a slot back up on my TS)? If so, does half of his salary count against the active list, even though he's never been activated? And when he comes off the IR at the end of the season, can I put him back on the TS without changing his salary?

Second, if I can put him on the IR... and I want to drop WR Steve Smith back down to my TS squad... does he count as 1 week active, even though we haven't had any games yet? Or can I put him back down without salary change?

Thoughts?

[Liquid Swords]

Interesting...and sorry I missed the original thread...I posted my thought there.

As for this...I think the IR should be for Active squad players. In this case, I don't think you'd need to make an Active roster cut (if full) to place Colt on the IR...his status just goes from TS to Active...thus subject to salary increases if placed back on TS at end of season (or after eligible to come off IR).

As for a player like Steve Smith (NYG), I think you can move him back down to the TS without any salary increase (as he hasn't officially played in Week 1's game)...but then again would there be any loopholes that could be abused by doing this (especially during the middle of the season): promote to Active on Tues of week 3 but demote on Sat before week 3 games start

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Interesting...and sorry I missed the original thread...I posted my thought there.

As for this...I think the IR should be for Active squad players. In this case, I don't think you'd need to make an Active roster cut (if full) to place Colt on the IR...his status just goes from TS to Active...thus subject to salary increases if placed back on TS at end of season (or after eligible to come off IR).

As for a player like Steve Smith (NYG), I think you can move him back down to the TS without any salary increase (as he hasn't officially played in Week 1's game)...but then again would there be any loopholes that could be abused by doing this (especially during the middle of the season): promote to Active on Tues of week 3 but demote on Sat before week 3 games start

Just chiming in here with an unbiased opinion, and knowledge of the rules (unless you all have changed them).

There's no loophole there, once a player is promoted they're contract becomes guaranteed. Further, if sent back down, even if it's on the same day as they are promoted, they are assessed a salary bump of 25cbs for 1 week on the active roster.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Originally Posted by Preds

Just chiming in here with an unbiased opinion, and knowledge of the rules (unless you all have changed them).

There's no loophole there, once a player is promoted they're contract becomes guaranteed. Further, if sent back down, even if it's on the same day as they are promoted, they are assessed a salary bump of 25cbs for 1 week on the active roster.

Thanks, Mike. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
So really, there's also no IR for the TS squad... if you put a TS player on the IR, you're in effect promoting him to active, contract wise, correct?

[Liquid Swords]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Thanks, Mike. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
So really, there's also no IR for the TS squad... if you put a TS player on the IR, you're in effect promoting him to active, contract wise, correct?

That's the way I see it.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

Thanks, Mike. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
So really, there's also no IR for the TS squad... if you put a TS player on the IR, you're in effect promoting him to active, contract wise, correct?

Burt asked me about the IR and TS issue, and honestly, I can't recall if a precedent was ever set or not, however, I do recall TS players being IR eligible.

The way I recall the IR being used for the TS is to place an injured TS player on IR, and thus opening up a spot to demote a TS eligible active roster player back to the TS and in effect opening up an active roster slot. I don't recall the 24 hour IR window at the end of the off-season being used to effectively add a TS member to a roster for an entire season as you were looking to do. That said, who knows, I may have tried that myself a few years ago, and probably did!

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

So there's still the question of whether a TS player going on the IR automatically "promotes" him to active... or if he goes on as a TS player, can he come off as a TS player, without having to increase his salary as if he were active for those weeks on the IR?

[Preds]

TS to IR is a lateral move. As long as the player goes straight from the TS to the IR and back to the TS there would be no activation or salary bump.

What I don't think you can do is place a rookie player on IR and say he was on the TS first while assigning rookie designations just to be able to stash an extra TS player for the year.

The only way to accomplish that IMO would be to first place the player on the TS while declaring rookie designations (thus taking up one of you TS slots when declaring designations), then move him to IR and opening back up a TS spot that can only be filled via trade or demotion. Does that make sense?

[Burt the Butcher]

I agree with Mike here, as the rules do state - "When a player is placed on IR, 50% of their salary will count against your cap (either active or DS, depending where the player was before the IR move), teams will also receive 1 temporary "contract year". "
So putting a player on the IR from either the TS or PS (these two make up the Developmental Squads or DS) is allowed and they take up one of the 4 IR slots. I also agree that rookies need to first be assigned a slot on either TS or PS before they can be placed on the IR - likewise a FA signed to the team.

[Flaxwless]

Just to be sure I am fine with the TS to IR move ONLY if the contract will still be counted half against the cap?

So say a rookie WR with a 200/5yr deal goes from TS to IR.... his deal is not guaranteed since he was never on active squad, but 100cbs WILL count against the cap?

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Just to be sure I am fine with the TS to IR move ONLY if the contract will still be counted half against the cap?

So say a rookie WR with a 200/5yr deal goes from TS to IR.... his deal is not guaranteed since he was never on active squad, but 100cbs WILL count against the cap?

Did we ever have a cap on the TS? I think that's what the rule Burt posted was referring to.

Otherwise, IMO, as the rules were originally drafted, or at least what their intent was, was to only have active roster players count against the cap, whether on IR or not. I don't recall ever charging a portion of a TS players salary against the active roster cap just because the TS player was on IR. That said, I haven't looked at the rules in a couple years, and things may have changed.

[Amish]

I'm not a big fan of having TS players go to the IR. Because the TS players stats and salaries don't count towards anything, the TS is like its own entity and therefore its own IR.

Just my two cents.

[Burt the Butcher]

I am not even sure what the point of putting a TS player on IR, since we can only place them there from the draft, and we have to have room to put them there in the first place - so putting a TS player on IR really doesn't get you anything, and just takes up one of your 4 slots

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

I am not even sure what the point of putting a TS player on IR, since we can only place them there from the draft, and we have to have room to put them there in the first place - so putting a TS player on IR really doesn't get you anything, and just takes up one of your 4 slots

I explained the scenario where placing a TS player on IR could be helpful earlier. Basically it could be used to open up a spot on the active roster by demoting an underperforming TS eligible player down to the TS from the active roster.

Also, don't confuse the TS with the PS. You can also place players on the TS via trade, thus that's another scenario where if you have an injured TS guy it could be helpful to open up a TS spot. PS players are the ones that can only be placed there via your draft.

It IR necessary for the TS? IMO, probably not, but I do believe as the rules were written it is allowed.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

Great feedback.
There is no salary cap on TS players. But there is a contract years cap! So if a TS player goes to the IR (which is how the rules as they're written now seem to allow), the TS squad will have one extra cap year.

So, to give "meat & bones" to Mike's scenario, let's take my team.
Colt Brennan is on the TS squad. His contract is 4/187. My TS contract years are maxed out at 20. If I move Colt to IR... a slot in my TS opens up. I also receive one temporary contract year. So I could move an active player who's TS eligible back down to the TS, as long as the salary tax is added (25cbs/week active) AND as long as I don't go over my 20+1 contract years for the TS.

As my team stands now, I do have a few players who are eligible, but none who have only one contract year left (Steve Smith has 2... ugh!).

So... unless I traded for a TS eligible player, it looks like my squad can't use this option right now.

RIGHT?

[Burt the Butcher]

Good points Mike. Agreed Jim..you are not going to be able to finagle this any which way but loose....

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

... Not trying to cheat the system, Burt... just USE the system. Should have only given Mike Thomas a 3 year contract! Oh well...