MFL Change on IDP's

[Burt the Butcher]

Hey guys, I got an email from MFL on Monday that said they have changed the way they determine an IDP's position - they are now using Rotoworld.com Depth Charts.

Here is the edited email:
"As part of our on-going partnership with Rotoworld.com, we will be updating our player database and changing the position of several players to match the position on the Rotoworld.com Depth Charts. The complete list of player position changes (that affect our league) will be listed at end of this post. These changes took effect on Wednesday morning, August 26th. Most of the changes involve individual defensive players, so they will have minimal impact, if any, on standard (non-IDP) leagues.
For all leagues, especially IDP leagues, we strongly suggest you review the entire list of player position changes to understand how it might impact your league rules. If you have roster position limits, and you already have players on rosters in your league for this season, then some of the rosters may become invalid after these changes.
We understand that not all leagues will agree with these position changes, and some leagues will not want them to take effect. If your league wants to over-ride some or all of these changes, then the commissioner can change them manually"

Notice the last part - not really looking forward to more work myself.

I propose we use the same method to determine positions, so that we can be in sync with MFL.

It looks like Scorpions will be most affected, with 3 of their DE's now listed as LB - thus Dale now has 6 LB and no DL's on their roster. Attack is only other team affected, with Dumervil moving to LB from DL.

Lets have come discussion before I put it to a vote. My opinion is we should allow the Scorpions and Attack to be allowed to drop these players without penalty if they choose to.

Opinions? This has always been a kind of grey area for us, and now this sets it in cement if we decide to go this way. Rotoworld is a free site, with pay features, but depth charts have free access. I use Rotoworld all the time to get up to date status on players.

[Burt the Butcher]

Oops..forgot to post players affected by change:

ARI: Cody Brown from DE to LB - FA
BUF: Nic Harris from S to LB - FA
CIN: Daniel Coats from RB to TE - FA
CLE: David Veikune from DE to LB - FA
DAL: Stephen Hodge from S to LB - FA
DAL: Victor Butler from DE to LB - FA
DEN: Jarvis Moss from DE to LB - FA
DEN: Tim Crowder from DE to LB - FA
DEN: Darrell Reid from DT to LB - FA
DEN: Elvis Dumervil from DE to LB - Attack
DET: Jason Hunter from LB to DE - FA
GB : Stryker Sulak from DE to LB - FA
GB : Aaron Kampman from DE to LB - Scorpions
GB : Jeremy Thompson from DE to LB - FA
KC : Tamba Hali from DE to LB - Scorpions
KC : Turk McBride from DE to LB - FA
MIA: Jason Taylor from DE to LB - Scorpions
MIA: Ernest Wilford from WR to TE - FA
NE : Derrick Burgess from DE to LB - FA
NE : Julian Edelman from QB to WR - FA
NYJ: Kareem Brown from DE to TE - FA
OAK: Greg Ellis from LB to DE - FA
SD : Larry English from DE to LB - FA
WAS: Brian Orakpo from DE to LB - FA
WAS: Chris Wilson from DE to LB - FA

[Scorpions]

That sucks, I vote I can cut without penalty, as no way I put that m any LB's on my team other wise.
SHould make a by law to the rules too, anytime a players position changes, the owner can decide to keep or cut.

[bigmash33]

I guess my only opinion is that it was pretty well known to people that read into fantasy football that a lot of these DEs were going to change to LBs because a handful of teams were changing to the 3-4 defense, especially Kampman, Hali, Taylor and Dumervil. Also, Orakpo was always listed as a LB on the Redskins' depth chart. So I feel that cuts should be subject to penalties...but I would not be upset either way.

[pacificscrub]

Regardless of whether you thought it might happen, people had to bid on players based on how things were at that time. Let them drop players with no penalty.

[Scorpions]

the penalty for these players is so small anyway, if i have to its not a big deal to drop them and pay the penalty as i would jsut decalre them as 1 year contrace, then just lose the % for a one year contract, no biggy.

But on the other hand, i migh thave some LB's to trade now,

I'm reviewing which players i will keep, or drop, regardless of if i pay a penalty or not.

[Liquid Swords]

i'm fine with no drop penalty for these player changes...this once

[Flaxwless]

My question is would we do this every year?

If not then why this year instead of future years where these changes will be unseen?

I could care less one way or another but just trying to play devil's advocate.

[Burt the Butcher]

Do what every year Frank?

[Scorpions]

I will be cutting all three of those players, none of them are projected to do that hot as a LB, I have guys on my taxi squad that are projected to get more points.

[pacificscrub]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Do what every year Frank?

Frank can correct me if I'm wrong, but this could easily happen in the future as teams switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and vice versa. A guy who's always been a DE in a 4-3 all of a sudden is playing LB in a 3-4 (like Elvis Dummerville in DEN this year).

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

Frank can correct me if I'm wrong, but this could easily happen in the future as teams switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense and vice versa. A guy who's always been a DE in a 4-3 all of a sudden is playing LB in a 3-4 (like Elvis Dummerville in DEN this year).

Well, if that what he means, than that won't be any different than any other year that happens...what the issue here is, that the site for our games has changed the way they do things, which is the cause of these changes....so even though we only seem to be discussing the drops being made penalty free, the real issue is are we going to go with MFL's decision, and use RotoWorld's depth charts to decide what position a player qualifies for? For existing players this is fine, but for rookies, I am still not sure what we use, or should use to determine their starting salary.

Whether or not they are listed as LB or DL on NFL.com which is what we used before, whatever MFL listed them as was the position we were able to start them at....

[PencilGeeks]

Originally Posted by bigmash33

I guess my only opinion is that it was pretty well known to people that read into fantasy football that a lot of these DEs were going to change to LBs because a handful of teams were changing to the 3-4 defense, especially Kampman, Hali, Taylor and Dumervil. Also, Orakpo was always listed as a LB on the Redskins' depth chart. So I feel that cuts should be subject to penalties...but I would not be upset either way.

I am of the same opinion, well said

[Liquid Swords]

Actually, thinking about this more, I'm in agreement with Mashers. This will continue to happen in the future with defensive scheme changes. So I too think penalties should apply for these cuts.

I think we need to stick with MFL's decision for using RotoWorld depth charts if only to reduce administrative upkeep.

As for rookies, this is a different beast...as I believe we hold our rookie draft before MFL adds rookies to their site. In this case, I say we stick with what we've always done and use NFL.com's position assignments to determine starting salaries. If RotoWorld adjusts their position so be it...they will still be subject to rookie bonuses at the RotoWorld position, not their drafted position.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Actually, thinking about this more, I'm in agreement with Mashers. This will continue to happen in the future with defensive scheme changes. So I too think penalties should apply for these cuts.

I think we need to stick with MFL's decision for using RotoWorld depth charts if only to reduce administrative upkeep.

As for rookies, this is a different beast...as I believe we hold our rookie draft before MFL adds rookies to their site. In this case, I say we stick with what we've always done and use NFL.com's position assignments to determine starting salaries. If RotoWorld adjusts their position so be it...they will still be subject to rookie bonuses at the RotoWorld position, not their drafted position.

Agreed.

The changing of positions will happen every year so sorry but cuts should apply.

We should use rotoworld for position assignments.

Rookies we use NFL.com until rotoworld adds them to the database.

[Scorpions]

Doesnt really matter to me, only a small penalty.
But to play devils advocate, the only players usualy who would change would be linemen or LB's, and up until just two days ago, they were listed as Linemen on MFL.
I think the thing to watch for is when will MFL change who it goes with to determien lineups, that is the issue, as most sights you look at still list them as Linemen.

But doesnt really matter, I have my cap undercontrol, so the penalty is not really going to effect me.

I think we can see that changes from 4-3 to 3-4 could be seen, but what we cant know is when will MFL change who it goes with to determine positions, thats not something you can really plan for, not likely a WR goes to RB.

No worries, I think my penalty is less than 100 on these players.

[Burt the Butcher]

OK, it looks like the consensus is to not let Scorpions or Attack make penalty free cuts on these players, but I am still going to try to make my point more clearly, since from the arguments, I am not sure you all get what happened.

Let's use Scorpions as the example here:
1) Dale bid on and signed 3 players that was listed as DL on MFL
2) He figured his team was set with 3 DL and 3 LB
3) On Wednesday, MFL implemented a BRAND NEW system of listing players by position, and switched his 3 DL's to LB's
4) Dale now has 6 LB's on his team

I am sure this has never happened after we have switched over to a new season. I know we have had discussions on how to determine a players position, and we decided on using NFL.com

NFL.com list Scorpions 3 players as:
DE 99 Taylor, Jason
DE 74 Kampman, Aaron
DE 91 Hali, Tamba

So this change goes against what we have been using up to this point.

I am not proposing allowing cuts penalty free when players have position changes from now on, I am simply saying I think it only fair to allow these guys to be cut once free of charge since they have been changed by different methods than we had previously agreed upon.

As for staying with RotoWorld.com depth charts, I have not seen anyone arguing against that, so we will let that stand as is, no manually manipulation from here forth, and everyone is responsible for checking FA's positions on that site.

We can discuss rookies after the season.

[Bounty Hunter]

Commish makes a good argument (that's why we pay him the big Cyber Bucks). Free cuts in this case seems fair.

[bigmash33]

Since I am new to the league, I really have no comment on the whole debate over what was used before and how that affects the rules. I was just posting my opinion on the matter. I also say to use rotworld rosters going forward to keep it the same as the MFL site.
As far as the difference between the nfl.com and rotoworld rosters, it could be that nfl.com has not updated their rosters because the team rosters haven't been cut down yet. Maybe they are waiting until teams have final rosters for the season....this is just a guess.

[Liquid Swords]

Commish's decision...we shall all abide by your ruling on this matter

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by bigmash33

Since I am new to the league, I really have no comment on the whole debate over what was used before and how that affects the rules. I was just posting my opinion on the matter.

And just because you are new, does not mean we do not value your opinion. Thanks!

[Liquid Swords]

Do we have a final ruling on this?

[Burt the Butcher]

Since they were still listed as DL's on NFL.com when the switch to the website was made, these cuts are a one time freebie.

And we will use RotoWorld for FA's positions from this point onward...Rookie positioning will have to be discussed in the offseason