Done Deal

[pacificscrub]

Flax's Bay Area Blood Suckers give:
RB Rashard Mendenhall
WR Braylon Edwards
2009 3rd rounder


for


Clowns give:
WR Roddy White (193/4yrs)
WR Marques Colston (1298/4yrs)
QB Kurt Warner (550/2yrs)
2009 5th rounder

Bay Area to confirm

[Flaxwless]

Confirm.

I love Mendenhall still but I think with more stability at WR and QB I can be a real threat this year.

[Flaxwless]

So made some moves to come into compliance:

This was + 398 cbs and + 8 yrs

Move DB Sean Jones and Brandon Lloyd to IR (-2 yrs)
Cut RB Chris Perry (-1 yr) (- ~1800 cbs)
Cut DB Troy Palomalu (- 3 yrs)
3 yrs under the cap
Total: 9 yrs free - 8 yrs coming in = 1 under the cap.

[pacificscrub]

Agree with Flax's assessment. That said, renegotiating Edwards to 5 years and placing Mendenhall on my Taxi Squad.


B Edwards 5yrs/1359

Please let me know if my math is off. Thanks.

[Flaxwless]

Scrubs if I were you I'd wait until after THIS season plays out to reneg Edwards since he has 2 years left on his deal.

2 yr deals can be done at the end of the season but before next off-season begins.
1 yr deals have to be done at the time of trade.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

Confirm.

I love Mendenhall still but I think with more stability at WR and QB I can be a real threat this year.

Yah, especially if you keep getting those cheesy wins, and if I keep losing 231-220...otherwise, see yah.....

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

Yah, especially if you keep getting those cheesy wins, and if I keep losing 231-220...otherwise, see yah.....

That's why I didn't stand pat. Knew my team was weak but now it is what it should have been when I envisioned starting with Moss, Smith, and Edwards.

Roddy White is the real deal. He was my original draft pick, had to cut him 1 year too early... so I'm glad he's back on my roster for dirt cheap.

Colston should be a Top 5 if not the #1 WR when he comes back cause Brees doing his best Marino/Gannon impersonation.

Next year my WRs will be SICK!!

Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Marques Colston, and Roddy White as my Top 4!! Then Kevin Curtis, Matt Jones, to round out the bench. MONEY!

EDIT: Still not a HUGE difference you AVG Points Against is 168.8 mine is 163.5... only 5 more points.

[pacificscrub]

Why wait? If I can only reneg with at least 2 years on a contract, then waiting till the off season doesn't make a difference. Off season or not, I shouldn't get an extra year out of the deal. Either he has one year remaining or two. Besides, I save $150 on his contract by doing it now as opposed to waiting.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

EDIT: Still not a HUGE difference you AVG Points Against is 168.8 mine is 163.5... only 5 more points.

Yes, with LT hurt and struggling first couple weeks, Brady with 5 points first game, playing week 4 with only 1 WR and 2 RB....

You're still toast.....a little lighter toast, but toast....YAH TOAST

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BILAFuSi-i0

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

Why wait? If I can only reneg with at least 2 years on a contract, then waiting till the off season doesn't make a difference. Off season or not, I shouldn't get an extra year out of the deal. Either he has one year remaining or two. Besides, I save $150 on his contract by doing it now as opposed to waiting.

Just to save to you the extra cap hit during this season... so you can still have room under the cap and then just restructure before we go into the 2009 calendar.

Also I hate to be the bring bad news since I made the trade with you and don't want you to feel deceive...

2 yrs left on deal = 350 CB increase that's the only time you can reneg if they have more than 1 year remaining and are on your team.

The 150 cb increase is only for players with 1yr deals.

I maybe wrong though.

[pacificscrub]

I read that section of the rules too and it was unclear to me. I thought the league had interpreted any player traded as renegotiable in the past, but I could also be wrong. I asked Burt and he thought it was ok to renegotiate him, but if the league says no, then I'll take the slightly higher cap hit. Any other thoughts?

I'm also not sure I understand the 350 cb reference. It's 10%/300 cb to renegotiate.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

I read that section of the rules too and it was unclear to me. I thought the league had interpreted any player traded as renegotiable in the past, but I could also be wrong. I asked Burt and he thought it was ok to renegotiate him, but if the league says no, then I'll take the slightly higher cap hit. Any other thoughts?

I'm also not sure I understand the 350 cb reference. It's 10%/300 cb to renegotiate.

My understanding is you can only renegotiate under two circumstances when they have a:

2 yr contract = they have to be on your team and receive an increase of either 10% or 300... whichever is greater.

1 yr contract after they have been traded - which is 5% or 150 which ever is greater.

SO since Edwards has a 2 year deal he would be subject to the 10%/300 not the 5%/150.

[Burt the Butcher]

OK, after re-reading the rules, I think Frank is right. The rules specifically states players with one year left on their contract can only be renegged by a trade. Thus players with 2 years or more would fall under the 1st part of rule. I need to get clarification from Preds on why the reneg % is less...why allow a team who trades for a player with one year left renegotiate for less than the player who has 2 years left...anyone? Buehler?

So I think he needs to be bumped 300cb, not 150cb. I don't think it matters to Bryan at this point, with all that cap, and no where to spend it.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Burt the Butcher

OK, after re-reading the rules, I think Frank is right. The rules specifically states players with one year left on their contract can only be renegged by a trade. Thus players with 2 years or more would fall under the 1st part of rule. I need to get clarification from Preds on why the reneg % is less...why allow a team who trades for a player with one year left renegotiate for less than the player who has 2 years left...anyone? Buehler?

So I think he needs to be bumped 300cb, not 150cb. I don't think it matters to Bryan at this point, with all that cap, and no where to spend it.

I think it is used as a way to encourage trading and also to prevent teams from having a contract wind down to 1 year and then being able to reneg a player... thus never allowing a player to hit FA.

So if you want to reneg your own player you have to do it before hey become a lame duck and that offers a higher risk than a 1 year FA pick up that turns into gold.

[Burt the Butcher]

Originally Posted by Flaxwless

I think it is used as a way to encourage trading and also to prevent teams from having a contract wind down to 1 year and then being able to reneg a player... thus never allowing a player to hit FA.

So if you want to reneg your own player you have to do it before hey become a lame duck and that offers a higher risk than a 1 year FA pick up that turns into gold.

Right you are...just chatted with Preds, and the lower reneg rate for traded 1 year players was to encourage trading. So I will adjust Edwards contract unless Bryan would prefer to wait until season end to see if Braylon gains another 40 pounds.....

[pacificscrub]

No problem. I'll wait until the off season to renegotiate him then, although I find it highly unlikely (short of...never mind, I don't want to jinx myself).

[Liquid Swords]

I'm updating the Roster App and noticed that the acquisition of Rashard Mendenhall puts Clowns over the Taxi Squad contract years!!!

[Liquid Swords]

So....no reneg on Braylon? If not, Burt, please remove the 150 cbs addition currently added to his contract on the website. If reneged, then add another 150 cbs. Thanks.

Also, I believe Colston should be on the IR and not Insects active roster...please confirm.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

So....no reneg on Braylon? If not, Burt, please remove the 150 cbs addition currently added to his contract on the website. If reneged, then add another 150 cbs. Thanks.

Also, I believe Colston should be on the IR and not Insects active roster...please confirm.

Should be active no?

I don't think Clowns ever put him on IR.

[Liquid Swords]

Placed on IR October 3

http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...hlight=colston

[Liquid Swords]

Clowns still need to make room for Mendenhall! The promotion of Merling does not work since he is on the PS and not the TS. The problem is the cap years on TS!

Do any penalties need to be handed down for this since it is well past the date to make the appropriate moves for the trade?

[pacificscrub]

In all honesty, I believe I should be facing penalties because Swords is right and I didn't make the proper adjustments in time. I have now, but I'll be keeping an eye on the boards today to make sure Swords doesn't find yet ANOTHER problem with my moves.

Also, Colston won't be eligible to come off of IR until Nov. 1 (4 weeks), so Flax needs to adjust his starting roster accordingly.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Placed on IR October 3

http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...hlight=colston

Whack! That sucks and I cut my only active WR

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Liquid Swords

Clowns still need to make room for Mendenhall! The promotion of Merling does not work since he is on the PS and not the TS. The problem is the cap years on TS!

Do any penalties need to be handed down for this since it is well past the date to make the appropriate moves for the trade?

If it was like my Kenny Phillips ordeal then his lowest draft pick would get cut not salary penalties.

[pacificscrub]

From the rules: If a team is over any of the caps after 24 hours of a trade confirmation, and corrective action has not been posted, the Rules Committee will veto the trade, send the players back to their original teams, AND impose the corresponding salary cap penalties. The players will not be released into free agency, but the offending team(s) salary cap will be punished.

That being the case, I believe Flax's problem is solved. The trade is reversed, he can start Edwards this week, then we can re-do the trade Tuesday morning if he's still interested since there's nothing that says we can't re-consumate the trade in the rules.

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by pacificscrub

From the rules: If a team is over any of the caps after 24 hours of a trade confirmation, and corrective action has not been posted, the Rules Committee will veto the trade, send the players back to their original teams, AND impose the corresponding salary cap penalties. The players will not be released into free agency, but the offending team(s) salary cap will be punished.

That being the case, I believe Flax's problem is solved. The trade is reversed, he can start Edwards this week, then we can re-do the trade Tuesday morning if he's still interested since there's nothing that says we can't re-consumate the trade in the rules.

What the hell?

Well when the committe reviews this I have two options in place.

If the trade is reversed then I would like to:

1. Start WR Braylon Edwards and retract the demotion of TE Zach Miller (who I promoted because of this fiasco).

2. If not then please promote and start TE Zach Miller.

[Burt the Butcher]

You guys are really giving me a freaking headache!!!!

The rules committee is Matt, Jake and Patrick. They are supposed to review all trades and decide what needs to be done. This whole year seems to be new violations to the rules, and the rules seem vague. Trading is not the same as assigning rookies contracts, so no way are the penalties going to be exactly the same, sorry Frank. The rule about voiding the trade seems to be written for active roster violations, but for simplicity sake, we'll go ahead and apply it to Taxi roster too. Thus I agree with Clowns in that this trade is voided. As to what the penalty should be for Clowns, I'll leave that up to the Rules committee to come to a decision. I have read the rules and I don't see anything obvious for Taxi cap violation in the middle of the season other than this:

"Any exchange of players between teams cannot leave either team in violation of the salary or contract years caps. If this happens, the commissioner will void the trade until such time as the affected teams can make room under the contract cap."

It's been a long day for me, my head hurts and I have no energy left to think this through. I'll review it further tomorrow, but if anyone else has an opinion, go for it.

And I do agree to let Frank readjust his starting lineup based on this trade being voided, so I will make those adjustments tomorrow....or ASAP...

[Burt the Butcher]

OK, I also found this in the rules:
"FYI: The Rules Committee shall have the power to dole out other penalties if by unanimous vote they deem an uncovered infraction deems such a penalty."

So, I my interpretation of the rules are the trade is voided until such time the 2 parties can fit this trade under all caps. No further penalties apply, unless the Rules committee deems one is necessary. I think there should be some kind of penalty, but not really sure what it should be. I'll PM Matt, Pat and Jake to see if they want to step in.

Regardless, the trade will be reversed, and Franks lineup adjustments for this week will be made as he noted above.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Did this deal ever happen? If so it involved:
2009 Draft pick(s) traded