IDP Rookie cap hit and bonus structure

[The Immortal Ramirez]

low for me, high for everyone else...
(do you think they'll buy it?)

Also, if we are adding rounds do we need to modify the existing bonus structure and caps for offensive players (not refering to Ramirez).

[The Immortal Ramirez]

cold man, that's cut me deep, Shrek...I mean Skippy

[Nittany Dodgers]

Definitely needs to be reworked. I think this should be a project for after the first season when we have a better idea of market values.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I would think we have a couple of options here. Since we really need to revamp the rookies salaries (not sure about the offensive player incentives) across the board for the extra rounds. One would be to get the cap number set and keep the 1.1 picks in portion to that total and work our way back down in the same increments. This seems to make the most sense. I would also think we could try and peg the defensive positions to their most similar offensive position (ie LB's have the same numbers as RB's).

Also, I would really like to do a rookie draft this year (as opposed to having them included in the auction. With that in mind (and since we don't have past records to determine the order) maybe we could go serpentine and pick a new order every two rounds (making sure that no one gets the first pick more than once). I know this would add some extra work developing the orders but since we have time I think something like this could be done.

Actaully the time thing might deserve it's own thread but maybe we should start to layout some time frames for the voting (rules finalization), auction starting/stopping and then rookie draft (if approved).

[The Immortal Ramirez]

Freedoms got some good points.

I think those who have recently played in IDP leagues should pull up their old stats (sharing would be appreciated) and compare. Where do the top ranked players on D rank compared to QB, RB, WR or TE (I hope no one scored like a kicker!). Then, if DL rank about like TEs, we set their cap the same as TE, etc. This is a good idea. I'm game for it.

Second point, the serpentine rookie draft this year is a good idea since there really isn't any order to rankings. (whoever gets lucky on the picking a name out of the hat would get advantage over person 12). Serpentine gives last person a chance.

I'm up for both of these. Anyone else have any ideas.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Matt, so you think we need to increase the rookie salaries at the same percentage that we are increasing the cap? Part of the cap increase is to accomodate the added roster spots, so while I think if we settle at 17500 for the new cap, some increase is in order, I don't think it should be the full 60% or so increase.

I also would like to do a rookie draft this year, if we can find a fair way to do it. I don't think a plain old serpentine gets the job done though. Rookie drafts are way too top heavy, although maybe with IDPs the first couple of rounds are a little deeper. If it was offense only, my suggestion would be to randomize the first round, the second round is a serpentine of the first, and each following round is the same order as the second round. Thus, whoever gets the first overall pick (in a great draft this year) selects last in every other round. Now, with defensive players, maybe it's not that unbalances, but I'm not sure.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

Matt, so you think we need to increase the rookie salaries at the same percentage that we are increasing the cap? Part of the cap increase is to accomodate the added roster spots, so while I think if we settle at 17500 for the new cap, some increase is in order, I don't think it should be the full 60% or so increase.

I also would like to do a rookie draft this year, if we can find a fair way to do it. I don't think a plain old serpentine gets the job done though. Rookie drafts are way too top heavy, although maybe with IDPs the first couple of rounds are a little deeper. If it was offense only, my suggestion would be to randomize the first round, the second round is a serpentine of the first, and each following round is the same order as the second round. Thus, whoever gets the first overall pick (in a great draft this year) selects last in every other round. Now, with defensive players, maybe it's not that unbalances, but I'm not sure.

I really, really think we should include the rooks in the auction this year.

As for changing salaries and bonus structure for the offensive players... I think we could just reduce the sliding scale by 33% to accomodate the 2 extra rounds of drafting. I don't think there's a need to adjust the bonus structure for offense at all.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I guess my request would be that if rookies are included in the auction that they at least be able to placed on the DS/Taxi (whatever) with the same restrictions (3 years pro experience and then ineligible) as we would have from a draft. The only downside (not that it would not catch up to people) could be an inflation of rookie salaries because they would not count right away against the cap.

Though I would still prefer a draft if we could at least consider the above I would be happy. Thanks!

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

I guess my request would be that if rookies are included in the auction that they at least be able to placed on the DS/Taxi (whatever) with the same restrictions (3 years pro experience and then ineligible) as we would have from a draft. The only downside (not that it would not catch up to people) could be an inflation of rookie salaries because they would not count right away against the cap.

Though I would still prefer a draft if we could at least consider the above I would be happy. Thanks!

There's just no fair way IMO to have a rookie draft the 1st year.

1. We don't have any type of historical reference for IDP players
2. There is no way to fairly rank a draft order... Rookie Drafts are way top heavy, and even with the IDP's, rarely does an IDP hit the top 7-8 picks.
3. I just don't get the hurry. We made mistakes in year 1 of the Frenzy not doing it all by auction, I don't think we should make the same ones here. I think we should develop a plan for the Taxi Squad and Practice Squads which will kick in year 2. We'll have records to go by at that point, as well as some data on the IDP salaries.

I just don't see why it's so important to get the Taxi Squad and Practice Squads filled year 1, when we have no fair method of establishing positioning for a draft. A draft that would impact the league for 3-5 years I might add. An all out auction year 1 is the only way to go IMO... but hey, majority will rule.

As for allowing auctioned rooks onto the TS and PS squads, I think you'd be creating an administrative nightmare since they would not be following the same scale and bonus structure as drafted rooks. If the rooks are included in with the vets then I think you'll see them sell at market value now, making the bonus structure less relavent.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Mike, you've convinced me.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

nice arguement. I can see doing auction for all in year 1 and making changes as needed in off-season before year 2.

I'll go with Mike's comments above

sounds good to me.

[Liquid Swords]

sounds good

skippy....maybe if you undergo eye surgery to repair that second eye, you'll be able to compete in the Central...until then plan to be blind-sided by my LBs.

[Mutts]

I agree with Mike here as well. Let market forces establish first year salaries for everyone and go from there.

[keepers]

Originally Posted by Wonder Mutts

I agree with Mike here as well. Let market forces establish first year salaries for everyone and go from there.

:thumbsup I also agree.

[The Immortal Ramirez]

counting the last posts, we have seven in agreement. That puts this issue to rest. Next topic to vote on....

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Still would have rather had a draft. Looks like that is out, so why can't we use our DS/Taxi Squad? The problem the Frenzy had was that we pegged salaries to projected numbers from the FBG's. That made sense at the time but way undervalued rookies whose numbers were not projected to be that high.

I think we could still figure out a way to allow us to take flyers (ie what we would normally do in the draft) on young guys that don't deserve to be active but are still worth being selected (bid on).

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

Still would have rather had a draft. Looks like that is out, so why can't we use our DS/Taxi Squad? The problem the Frenzy had was that we pegged salaries to projected numbers from the FBG's. That made sense at the time but way undervalued rookies whose numbers were not projected to be that high.

I think we could still figure out a way to allow us to take flyers (ie what we would normally do in the draft) on young guys that don't deserve to be active but are still worth being selected (bid on).

The rooks are going to sell at whatever the market will bear. They don't belong on TS or PS as aresult IMO. They'll be no different then a vet that sells at auction. Bid accordingly IMO.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I understand the valuation part of it and understand where you are coming from but still will vote nay (not that it matters since a majority has already been reached).

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

Still would have rather had a draft. Looks like that is out, so why can't we use our DS/Taxi Squad? The problem the Frenzy had was that we pegged salaries to projected numbers from the FBG's. That made sense at the time but way undervalued rookies whose numbers were not projected to be that high.

I think we could still figure out a way to allow us to take flyers (ie what we would normally do in the draft) on young guys that don't deserve to be active but are still worth being selected (bid on).

I understand where Matt is coming from. I agree that it would be nice to be able to begin player development from the get-go. Is there any reason why we can't just extend the initial auction to include our D/S slots, allow for a specific number of rookies to be sent to the D/S immediately? I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it, but it might enhance hope for the future for those of us just getting our feet wet in IDP.

[Nittany Dodgers]

My biggest concern for expanding the auction to the PS and TS would be the record keeping issues, the bonuses paid down the line, etc. In reality, I think it would be easy enough to note on the roster app that they aren't truly rookie contracts and therefor not elligible for bonuses, but I'm not about to start sticking my nose into roster app issues.

I would also have concerns of what seemed to happen the first year of the Frenzy, of some teams totally playing for the future the first year, and others playing for the present. If we skip the draft, and TS the first year, everyone will be working for the same goal of winning this year (at least initially).

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I understand where Matt is coming from. I agree that it would be nice to be able to begin player development from the get-go. Is there any reason why we can't just extend the initial auction to include our D/S slots, allow for a specific number of rookies to be sent to the D/S immediately? I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it, but it might enhance hope for the future for those of us just getting our feet wet in IDP.

Okay, here is a thought. Why not have a seperate rookie auction. That way we all have the same money and the market can set the values. If you blow it all on one guy than you still need to make room for them on your active roster.

I think this is the sort of compromise that could work.

[Mutts]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

Okay, here is a thought. Why not have a seperate rookie auction. That way we all have the same money and the market can set the values. If you blow it all on one guy than you still need to make room for them on your active roster.

I think this is the sort of compromise that could work.

Anyone have any input on this idea? I think its worth looking into. There seemed to be initial interest in a rookie draft before we determined there was no fair way to determine draft position. Holding a first year auction for rookies isn't a bad idea IMO.

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Freedom

Okay, here is a thought. Why not have a seperate rookie auction. That way we all have the same money and the market can set the values. If you blow it all on one guy than you still need to make room for them on your active roster.

I think this is the sort of compromise that could work.

I htought about this earlier but didn't see it helping the situation at all.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Wonder Mutts

Anyone have any input on this idea? I think its worth looking into. There seemed to be initial interest in a rookie draft before we determined there was no fair way to determine draft position. Holding a first year auction for rookies isn't a bad idea IMO.

We had a seperate rookie auction in the CDL with a smaller cap. Personally I didn't think it worked. IMO, I just don't get why we don't include the rooks in the regular auction. If you want to blow 50% of your cap on rooks go for it, if you think you can land a diamond cheap, be my guest.

Why is there a need to seperate out the rookies year 1? Seriously? I know people would love to start filling the TS and PS's, but we'll be able to do that year 2.

Am I that far off base on this one?

[The Immortal Ramirez]

I think rookie draft/auction would be ideal IF we could get ways of valuing and fair order. However, since we seem to be running short on ideas on how to remedy this, I tend to lean towards what Preds is saying: If you want to drop 10% of your salary cap on Braylon Edwards (like certain Michigan homers I know), then be my guest, I'll be spending it on vets. But, to kick in 50 cb on a day 2 draftee and I win the auction, then I may have struck paydirt. If not, drop his butt and re-evaluate my talent scout...

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Preds

We had a seperate rookie auction in the CDL with a smaller cap. Personally I didn't think it worked. IMO, I just don't get why we don't include the rooks in the regular auction. If you want to blow 50% of your cap on rooks go for it, if you think you can land a diamond cheap, be my guest.

Why is there a need to seperate out the rookies year 1? Seriously? I know people would love to start filling the TS and PS's, but we'll be able to do that year 2.

Am I that far off base on this one?

The reason why is easy to answer. This is the most loaded RB draft in years. The only position there is really no great prospects is QB, and there are still a couple that will be drafted high and possibly into starting positions. If you enjoy drafting rookies, this is the best draft, since I've been doing Rookie Drafts to be a part of.

The how is hard.

Sure, you can still draft the rookies, but you get no bonuses of being able to sit on them and let them develop, unless you take the "play for next year" mode some people did in the Frenzy.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

The reason why is easy to answer. This is the most loaded RB draft in years. The only position there is really no great prospects is QB, and there are still a couple that will be drafted high and possibly into starting positions. If you enjoy drafting rookies, this is the best draft, since I've been doing Rookie Drafts to be a part of.

The how is hard.

Sure, you can still draft the rookies, but you get no bonuses of being able to sit on them and let them develop, unless you take the "play for next year" mode some people did in the Frenzy.

I don't know about you but I plan to build for both the present and the future from the start. The rooks will be the same to me as the vets, just younger.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I don't know about you but I plan to build for both the present and the future from the start. The rooks will be the same to me as the vets, just younger.

I don't think that the rookies will be the same which is why I would advocate having a seperate rookie auction. If an owner chooses to make a rookie active right away that would be up to the owner but I would like to be able to try and develop so young guys without having to make the active members of my team.

I would think that by letting everyone have a shot at any player you eliminate the concerns about developing a draft order. This will also allow the market to set the prices (within reason since I would think there should a cap in place for this year at maybe 8-12% of what ever the active cap is).

Not sure how this could hurt things since it seems to address everyone's concerns while also adding a developmental component that is part of what makes dynasty leagues fun and interesting.