Raise the stakes? $10... Winner take all!

[Flaxwless]

Joel and I were talking and we were wondeirng if there is interest in a $10 winner take all pot to the league.

It wouldn't be mandatory and only way to win the cash is to win the Frenzy Bowl. If no one in the prize pool wins the Frenzy Bowl then the prize pool is rolled over into the next season.

It will be completely optional each year so you could:

1) Stay in - You are eligible to the carry-over prize pool (if there is one) and the new years prize pool.

Cost: $10
Potential Winnings: Carry over + that years pot

2) Join/Re-Join - The team is only eligible for the new years prize pool and cannot win carry over pool. Team pays $10 dollars for that year + $5 for entery fee all of which is put into the current year prize pool. If they remain in the pool the following year and so forth they only pay $10 and are eligible to the carry over pool total accumulated since they joined. A Owner taking over a team can join that year for only $10.

Cost: $15 to enter, $10 each consecutive year.
Potential Winnings: Current year's prize pool + eligibility to future carry over.

3) Jump out - All your money stays in and you lose all right to the money you put in if you return. You'd basically be starting from scratch again.

Cost: $0
Potential Winnings: NONE

So who would be interested? It is completely optional and should add some extra little excitement to the year. This also could help crub the "tanking" problem of years past. Plus the only way to win it is to win it all!

Who's in?

[Amish]

I'm in... I like the fact of it being optional. No pressure to anyone.

[smsmith40]

I don't want to be a killjoy but I don't play in pay leagues (apart from league fees obviously). I'm not a fundamentalist about gambling or anything but from experience the inevitable minor league friction can get out of control with even token amounts of cash on the table and the most stable ownership you can imagine.

[Nittany Dodgers]

I'd be out too, but good luck to those who participate.

I was in a money league for 15+ years, and the fun of playing for money didn't match for me the fun of playing for pride and trying to build something.

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I have no problem with this... but I won't be contributing. I've never been one to participate in pay leagues.

[Preds]

All good points made above...

Personally, I can do either or, I' don't mind playing for small stakes, but on the flip side, part of the enjoyment of playing in Frenzy and SACD is knowing that it's not about money, but about competeting with some of the best of the best. Anything besides that is just gravy (ie. the Trophy)... speaking of which, we really need to get a trophy for SACD.

[Popes]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

I was in a money league for 15+ years, and the fun of playing for money didn't match for me the fun of playing for pride and trying to build something.

This suggests it has to be one or the other and I disagree with that. All those years we played in the PFFL, we were only doing it for the money? You could have fooled me. If so, then it's the worst job I've ever had. Even when I won it, my hourly wage must have been about a nickel per hour spent working on my team. We did it for the fun and pride of building. The money was just a nice little bonus for the successful ones. Back then (pre-Internet), the winnings probably all went for Cliff Carpentier books and the cost of FF magazines, anyway!

That said, I'm in. I like the opt-in and opt-out possibilities, so you can stay out when you're in the rebuilding mode. Count me in.

Also, through 15 years of having played in 4 pay leagues, the only time the money ever caused any friction was back when we were kids, with crap jobs, and $100 (unusual range of the first place winnings) was actually significant money to us. Since age 22, I've never seen it cause any friction whatsoever. It's hard for me to imagine that someone could put this many hours into something based on pride and then somehow get really bent out of shape over $50.

My 2cents

[Royal Hawaiian Opihi]

I don't see it as a problem for those who want to participate. Just don't be upset if the trophy remains with a non-pay franchise! ;)

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Royal Hawaiian Opihi

I don't see it as a problem for those who want to participate. Just don't be upset if the trophy remains with a non-pay franchise! ;)

And that's the beauty of it. Those who don't participate still have a chance to mess it up for those who do.

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Popes

This suggests it has to be one or the other and I disagree with that. All those years we played in the PFFL, we were doing it for the money? You could have fooled me. If so, then it's the worst job I've ever had. Even when I won it, my hourly wage must have been about a nickel per hour spent working on my team. We did it for the fun and pride of building. The money was just a nice little bonus for the successful ones. Back then (pre-Internet), the winnings probably all went for Cliff Carpentier books and the cost of FF magazines, anyway!

I'd say that as time went on, money became a smaller and smaller part of it, but in the begining, and for several years, money was a big part of it (I'll just point to all of the gambling addicts that came out of the PFFL as evidence to support my point). People were playing to win, and playing to win money.

Originally Posted by Popes

That said, I'm in. I like the opt-in and opt-out possibilities, so you can stay out when you're in the rebuilding mode. Count me in.

The problem I see with the way it is proposed is if you drop out for a year for "rebuilding" and get back in, you don't get back credit for what you've put it. That means, as the pot gets bigger and bigger (if it does), you can't really drop out because you miss out on a winning a large chunk of money. Thus, if the pot gets big, it really is mandatory, to use a term I know you know, because you are pot committed.

Originally Posted by Popes

Also, through 15 years of having played in 4 pay leagues, the only time the money ever caused any friction was back when we were kids, with crap jobs, and $100 (unusual range of the first place winnings) was actually significant money to us. Since age 22, I've never seen it cause any friction whatsoever. It's hard for me to imagine that someone could put this many hours into something based on pride and then somehow get really bent out of shape over $50.

I think the problems we had in the PFFL were amplified by the fact we were playing for money. If certain people were doing their idiotic stuff, and we were playing for free, I think we'd have been able to better deal with it in a rational way, but with the money involved, the sense of ownership came in to play.

What happens when someon who's put money in for several years decides to ignore his team for a year, citing rebuilding, but now has a moneytary investment in the league? That could get ugly. I am not going to stop anyone from doing, but I think it should not be an official league sanctioned kind of thing, and league decisions should not be made based on the side bets.

[Urza's Ragers]

I not against the idea, though I'm not in any pay leagues. Most of the leagues I play in are for fun, I'm pretty sure Mike have heard from Joe the one where we go out in public in a funny shirt.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Urza's Ragers

I not against the idea, though I'm not in any pay leagues. Most of the leagues I play in are for fun, I'm pretty sure Mike have heard from Joe the one where we go out in public in a funny shirt.

Oh yeah, I remember the humiliation T in public. Good stuff!

[Philadelphia Freedom]

Not against it but based on my track record here I would have to be insane to put up any more then the MFL/trophy money. Good luck to those who pony up.

[Popes]

Since only three of us showed interest, I'm assuming this is dead. I just thought I'd give it a bump since Week 1 is about to start. I still think it'd be fun, but there'd probably need to be at least 5 to make it worthwhile.

[Preds]

Originally Posted by Popes

Since only three of us showed interest, I'm assuming this is dead. I just thought I'd give it a bump since Week 1 is about to start. I still think it'd be fun, but there'd probably need to be at least 5 to make it worthwhile.

I'll throw in $10 for this, even if it's just 3 or 4 of us.

[Urza's Ragers]

Sure, count me in. Even this nut will find a squirrel one day or is it something else...

[Valencia]

Even though I am a newby and don't have much of a chance... Like I have always said "You have to enter the race to win".. Count me in.
Late

[Popes]

It looks like we've got 6 willing to do it:

Insects
Amish
Popes
Preds
Ragers
Absolut

Frank, how do you want to administer this thing (the money)?

Also, what's the reasoning for $15 to get in and $10 thereafter? Is it just to build the pot a little in the beginning? Either way is fine, just wondering.

[Urza's Ragers]

$15!!!!! I might be out for 15 ...jk.

[Amish]

Originally Posted by Valencia

Even though I am a newby and don't have much of a chance... Like I have always said "You have to enter the race to win".. Count me in.
Late

My team sucks donkey balls worse than yours. Glad there isn't a penalty for toilet bowl!

[Flaxwless]

Originally Posted by Popes

It looks like we've got 6 willing to do it:

Insects
Amish
Popes
Preds
Ragers
Absolut

Frank, how do you want to administer this thing (the money)?

Also, what's the reasoning for $15 to get in and $10 thereafter? Is it just to build the pot a little in the beginning? Either way is fine, just wondering.

It's $10 for everyone joining THIS season.

For anyone who joins NEXT season or 3 years form now if someone leaves then rejoins, they pay $15 just to build the pot and then each consecutive year is just $10 after.

It also is to prevent teams from leaving b/c they have a sucky team and then re-joining when they are stacked. They could still leave, but if they re-enter they have to pay $5 dollars.

[Popes]

This pretty much died last year because no one stepped up to administer it (AKA collect the money). As all 6 teams interested missed the playoffs completely, I guess it was a moot point anyway!


Are we still interested in this? If so, I'd be willing to run it (AKA collect the money) to make it happen. 1 of our 6 interested teams is no longer in the league (Preds), so that leaves:

Popes
Insects
Amish
Ragers
Absolut
[either of the new guys???]

If you guys still want to do this, we'd need to decide if we want to start from stratch this year, or if we want to put in $20 each to cover last year and this year. Either way, it's pretty much the same end result (any new people can only win this year's fees), just a bigger pot vs. a smaller pot.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Amish]

I'd be in if you administer ... Thanks for bringing it up!

[Urza's Ragers]

I'm in. To make it simpler, why don't we start from scratch so that not much calculation is needed if the new folks win.

[Valley Avengers]

I'm in - seems silly to put money in for last year since nobody won it, even if it bloats the pot a little - might as well start fresh this year. It would probably save time if everyone just sent their money straight to me.

[Amish]

Originally Posted by Valley Avengers

It would probably save time if everyone just sent their money straight to me.

Those dang lawyers always want your money!

[Nittany Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Valley Avengers

I'm in - seems silly to put money in for last year since nobody won it, even if it bloats the pot a little - might as well start fresh this year. It would probably save time if everyone just sent their money straight to me.

Ah, the optimism of a new team. You sound so much like the Popes from a year ago...

[Valley Avengers]

Originally Posted by Nittany Dodgers

You sound so much like the Popes from a year ago...

Except I will actually be doing more than talk. I won't be making any bunk deals like trading Adrian Peterson for Cedric Benson and Vernon Davis.

[Philadelphia Freedom]

I am out. Even after finally making the playoffs I don't think I am ready to put my money where my mouth it.

[Liquid Swords]

I'm out...but I'll make sure that pot continues to grow every year