Week 2 Notes
 

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Good stuff as always.

Matt always seems to catch me when my team is having a buzzsaw week (save for last year where I believe he doubled up with 2 wins on me). I really thought the Freedom turned a corner last year, but it fell apart late in the season, and they still don't seem to have found their way thus far this year. Despite his dismal stats in Frenzy, I still believe that Matt WILL win a championship in Frenzy and SACD, and when he does, I'll be cheering hard for him.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

So last week, it felt like a bit of a raw deal being the new guy with no stat history, because then the Stat Man glosses over my landmark victory over him. Now I see the flip side of the coin. When my suddenly not-so-contending-looking team puts up a dismal performance, there's mercifully little for Stat Man to say :D

I agree though, I LOVE reading the stats updates!

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Wooo.

I'm 2-0 and this was supposed to be a rebuilding year for me!

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

So can I claim it's the match-ups (rather than just outright suckiness)???

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Without a doubt. IMO, bad luck with matchups has been part of your problem, you've had some very good weeks over the years and still come out on the wrong end as I recall.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

But you say you are in rebuilding every year??? :bs:

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Not last year. Was expecting to win it all and almost did if I had a better QB and a 3 WR.

Delhomme

LT
Lamont Jordan

Steve Smith
Donald Driver
Crap

Kellen Winslow

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Maybe at the begining of the year. Mid season you threw the towel in and held a so-called "fire-sale." You didn't sell anything, and only due to a late season collapse by my Dodgers did you sneak into the wild card.

You weren't touting yourself as a title contender all year last year, that's for sure.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I remember that supposed fire-sale, too. LOL... those were the good old days!

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Yup, that's what I recalled.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Before the season I was. I felt that was my last year to win it with that crew as LT, Smith, Driver were on 1 year deals.

Delhomme was a Top 10 QB, LT was the top ranked RB if not fantasy player, LaMont Jordan was excected to be a Top 12 RB (like the year before), Steve Smith is a Top 3 WR if not #1 WR, Donald Driver would be the WR1 on other teams, and Kellen Winslow was ranked as one of the better TEs in the league. That team was stacked in the starting line up.

The Delhomme sucked, Lamont Jordan and the Raiders blew cause of Shell, and I couldn't get consistent production from my WR3.

If I had decent RB2 I would have skated into the playoffs and probably won.

I was attempting a fire-sale halfway through but with a 4-4 record and no enticing offers I stayed pat. Worked out well, IMO.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

[Princess Bride] You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. [/Princess Bride]

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I was willing to deal them (Steve Smith, LT) for lower than if someone entered talks in pre-season. However, the deals still didn't benefit my team short term or in the long run.

All I wanted was a 1st rounder for Smith or LT and got neither. Prior would have been a 1st + a decent player.

Fire sale doesn't mean I'll give them away for free, just cause.

I was hovering at or above .500 at the time with the division and wild card teams in the same boat.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I'm not saying they go for free, but what you're talking about is not a firesale. Just "talking trade." You know, what goes on all the time. Everybody in the league is open to trade their players if they get offers that benifit them. That's what you were doing. When teams are out of it and trade off their best player for the best offer, that's a fire sale. You turned down the best offer, and in my estimation asked for the moon, and ended up not traded. Anyway you slice it, that is no fire sale.

I'm not saying you're wrong for not trading him, I'm just saying you're wrong for calling whatever it was you were doing a fire sale.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I agree with Brian on this!

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

So let me gets this straight, just for future reference. When I use the term fire sale that implies I will let them go no matter what to the best offer?

From my POV a fire sale describes trading away most if not all of the estbalished players on a team for rookies, non established players, and/or draft picks.

From Wikipedia:

So was I wrong in using the term fire sale? I don't think so. No where in that definition does it state that I MUST let them go in order for it to be a fire sale. Even then, I correctly used the term fire sale as (1) I was willing to trade LT, Steve Smith, Driver, Winslow (my core) for (2) draft picks or young rookies. Had I gotten adequate offers... it would have been a fire sale as I would have traded most of my team away for draft picks or players on rookie contracts.

So did I use the term wrong? No. Did I use it in a misleading way? No. I really did ATTEMPT a fire sale. I had the mind set that if someone had offered me a 1st rounder those guys would have been gone, but nothing materialized so the fire sale was not completed.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Interesting. My inclination is to agree with Brian and Mike. My thought is that a firesale implies that you are actually going to move the guys for the best offer. To me, a true firesale situation exists when you are 100% giving up on the season, in which case you will move the contract-about-to-end veterans for the best offer, because they no longer have any value for you at all.

In your case, you were still on the edge of competing, so you wouldn't take a 2nd round pick for them. In a true firesale, you'd be 100% out of it (let's say you're 0-8 when you did it) and you WOULD take a 2nd pick, because that's better than nothing, which is what their worth is to you.

However, the definition you provided is definitely different from how I've always defined it. I'll have to dig around the definitions and see what I find.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Frank Gore and a 1st round pick to me does not meet the criteria of "prospects with little to no major league experience." Well, obviously the draft pick does but Frank Gore was the leading rusher for the 49ers the year before, and was currently in the top 5 RBs in the league. How does he fit in with your definition of a "prospect?" Given the defintion you quoted, Your requirement of Gore and a 1st is definitely more in line with the "rebuilding" idea than the fire sale idea.

Also, look at the last sentence in your definition. "The term comes from the perception that the team is trying to get rid of all of its players." Read that again, it says that the team is TRYING to get rid of all of its players. Waiting for a deal that is an obvious benefit to your team does not meet my definition of trying to get rid of all of your players.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Wikipedia is perhaps the worst reference source on the planet. I could go in there and rewrite the definition if I wanted.

I also agree with Brian and Popes that a fire-sale is the 100% intention to move your expiring contracts and taking the best offer.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I did quite a bit of rooting around amongst the various definitions and I definitely think you're using it wrong. The wikipedia definition is, IMO, not incorrect, but incomplete. It focuses on trading the player for draft picks and prospects w/o mentioning that there's a "below market value" aspect.

You're relying on "I would have traded for picks + young guys" = firesale. If that's all that's required, then if I traded Manning for 3 first round picks, I'd be having a fire sale, right? No, because I'm not letting him go for less than market value.

The whole point of the firesale is that you're letting high value guys go for significantly less than market value.

You wanted Gore + a 1st rounder for Steve Smith? That's not even remotely a firesale. If that happened, it'd just be a trade: value for value (and of course arguable how equivalent, but it's clearly value on each side).

Give up Steve Smith for a 2nd rounder because you're out of it and it's the best offer on the table, even though you know he's worth more? That's a firesale.

Better example: I actually did trade Steve Smith for a 2nd rounder + S. Holmes (young prospect) + T. Jackson (young prospect). Firesale? By your definition, yes. But I didn't sell him for less than market value (in my mind at the time), so it was just a value for value trade: present value for future value.

--------------------
Some selected info I relied on:

Oxford dictionary: "a sale of goods or assets at a very low price"

Merriam Webster dictionary: "a sale at very low prices"

Current Sacramento Bee article regarding the Kings trying to trade Ron Artest (http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/177884.html):

"With teams afraid of the forward, the Kings might have to dump him for little in return."

"There is a likelihood that the Kings will have to swallow hard and take a fire-sale deal to move Artest."

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

I tend to disagree on this, I still think I offered the better deal, thus you did sell below market value (IMO at least)! :ripped:

:stillhopingstevesmithbreakshislegthisseason:





:oops::nobody: LOL

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

:rant:

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Case closed.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

OK, let me clarify. A firesale requires you to sell significantly below market value. You're arguing that I made a slightly below market value trade. My point is, no one in their right mind would say I firesaled him.

Re your deal, I don't remember your exact offer, but I'm still glad I took Brian's offer instead. The centerpiece of each trade was "who do I want to be my future starting WR?": M. Clayton ($483 for 3 years) or S. Holmes ($275 for 4 years). I chose Holmes. I figured they'd put up similar #s in the future and therefore went for the cheaper player with more years remaining. However, the first two weeks of 2007 are so far showing Holmes to be the much better performer, as well:

2007 points:

M. Clayton:
Week 1 = 0.0
Week 2 = 0.4

S. Holmes:
Week 1 = 13.85
Week 2 = 6.8

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Didn't my offer include some high picks a well? Honestly, I cant remember any more either, I remember the discussions were LATE at night before my Hawaii trip or something like that!

It's still too early to make a call on Clayton / Holmes IMO, though the early returns certainly trend towards Holmes (I think Clayton is fighting an undisclosed injury).

Also, I wasn't trying to say you had a firesale on Smith, just that I thought you left a better offer on the table, and thus traded below market value. Of course, that's all subjective too, so I guess the reality is you got the value YOU wanted out of him.

:stillhopesmithsbreaksaleg...nooffensebrian: ;)

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

To the best of my memory, the offers were:

From Mike: M. Clayton + 1st
From Brian: S. Holmes + T. Jackson + 2nd

If it makes you feel any better, I liked both offers a lot! It was a tough decision. In the end, it basically came down to a "Clayton or Holmes" decision for me.

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

That sounds about right, though I thought I was sending a 2nd as well. Maybe not. Regardless, I still think the Clayton/Holmes decision was fairly equal (especially at that point in time when Clayton had vastly outproduced Holmes), so IMO you passed on my 1st for Brians 2nd and Jackson. Jackson IMO is completely worthless (was then and is now), so while I know Brian's pick will be early in the 2nd (;)), and my pick will be late in the 1st, I still think you took the wrong offer!

:cheers:

Re: Week 2 Notes
 

Is there a way to bookmark specific posts? I have a feeling I'll be needing to refer to this post in a few months.