Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

http://football.myfantasyleague.com/...s?L=25465&O=37

The above link will take you to the scoring for the IDP league I played in last season. When looking at DBs, select CB+S and when looking at DLs, select DT+DE. LBs are just LBs.

Scoring for above league:

Punt/Kickoff Return TDs: 6pts
Fumble Recovery/Interception Return TDs: 6pts
Blocked FG/Punt Return TDs: 6pts
Fumble Recoveries: 4pts
Interceptions Caught: 4pts
Blocked FG/Punt: 4pts
Tackles: 1pt
Assists: 0.5pt
QB Sack: 4pts
Safeties: 6pts

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

So, scoring wise, it seems the best player at each D position scores about as much as the better TEs (based on Frenzy scoring). Would you say that is accurate?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

That'd probably be a good estimate.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

So if I'm reading the charts right, as far as LBs, we are going to have the best averaging around 10 points, and bums on the bench averaging in the 3 range, and a straight line decline down in scoring. I can live with that.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Those scoring numbers seem lower than the ones I've experienced in other IDP systems which if I recall had less generous scoring. Weird.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

I like it. What about the blocked passes? That came up in the other thread.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

you can increase the scoring quite a bit by bumping up tackles to 2 pts and assists to 1 point.....that was the original scoring but two years ago it was bumped down to 1/.5

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

That's the difference, I think my other leagues did go 2/1 for tackles and assists.

It makes a huge difference (probably a good one) since your solid tacklers really rise to the top.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

definitely...in the 1st season Ray Lewis was putting up Priest Holmes numbers

Edit: actually, I think it was Urlacher that put up the big numbers....i think Ray was out quite a bit that year.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

My thoughts are to raise tackle pts as these are more predictable and a better indication of the quality of the player and lower the pts for fumble recoveries and INTs slightly as these are wildly unpredictable. Something like:

Fumble Recovery/Interception Return TDs: 6pts
Blocked FG/Punt Return TDs: 6pts
Fumble Recoveries: 3pts
Interceptions Caught: 3pts
Blocked FG/Punt: 4pts
Tackles: 1.5pts
Assists: .5 pt
QB Sack: 2pts per .5 sacks ... often get 1/2 a sack
Safeties: 6pts
Forced Fumbles: 3pts ... added this in
Deflected passes: 1pt ... added this in

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

I like it., though maybe only 1 or 2 points for the Forced Fumbles, better yet, bring the Fumble Recovery Points down to 2 and give 2 for the force for a totle of 4.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Raise deflected passes to 2 points, and I'd go for this system.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

If our software will track it, I think 2/2 for fumbles is a good idea.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

I agree 2/2 for fumbles is good.

Raising deflected pass pts may also be a good idea as this will get DTs a little more in line with LBs and DBs which look to be higher scoring positions at the moment.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

I'm cool with deflected passes getting 2 pts.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

All of these ideas sound good to me.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

What they said... :thumbsup
I like all the improvements

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

sounds pretty good.

would anyone *cough*preds*cough* be able to run this through FLM and post what the results of the changes would be?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

do you really want defected passes to be more important than tackles and equal to sacks? Besides, DL are not the only ones getting them. A lot of DBs get defects, so that will increase their scores. Main points for DL are sacks from my experience.

I like adding the deflected, just don't want to score it too high. We can try 2 points, then re-evaluate next year.

I also like having 2/2 for forced fumbles and fumble recoveries.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Maybe I will be able to sometime this weekend... we'll see.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

DBs will rack up the majority of passes deflected. 19 out of the top 20 from 2004 were DBs leading deflections. Not a single DL is in the top 40. And only 6 LBs are in the top 40......so 34 out of top 40 leaders in pass deflections were DBs.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

thanks for the confirmation. I didn't have the stats, I just remembered that from years ago

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Good point. I was thinking about only pass deflections by pass rushers at the line of scrimmage, totally forgot about downfield pass deflections. It may be a category to minimize (.5 pts) or to eliminate as it even further takes away from DLs.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

I agree. My previous point was 0.5 (because it IS worth something), but not to value it too much.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

0.5 works for me... heck we could be renegaes and do something CRAZY like 0.75! ;)

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Correct...at .5 pts I think it will help increase the value of your shutdown CBs without decreasing value at other positions.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

.5pts sounds good to me

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

.5 is good - but then again, I'm game for trying out the whole renegae thing too... :D

Re: Sample IDP Scoring
 

Don't encourage Preds....

Sample Scoring (see links)
 

OK, I entered the scoring rules into FFLM and created a couple pages for you all to see.

One shows you the Frenzy Offensive scoring (which we are not changing), but it gives you an idea on player valuations.

The link to the Offensive Stats is: http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004OffensiveScoring.htm

I've also created a page for the Defensive Stats, which shows the scoring system currently being proposed.

The link to the Defensive Stats is: http://predsff.com/SAC%27D2004DefensiveScoring.htm

My 1st impressions... we don't have enough seperation from the top guys to the middle and lower tier guys on defense. We also probably should score a bit more for Tackles, Sacks, and Deflections. I'll create a page with some increased numbers and post it in a bit.

EDITED TO ADD A 2nd Defensive Scoring Proposal
Ok, I did the following to the defensive scoring to see what the results look like...

I made the following changes:
Tackles - 2 Points (was 1)
Assists - 1 Point (was .5)
Passes Defensed - 1 Point (was .5)
Sacks - 2pts per 1/2 a sack (was 1 per 1/2)

Which Resulted in the following Scoring for IDP's:
http://predsff.com/SAC%27D2004DefensiveScoring2.htm

I liked the results I see with the 2nd setup much better. What about the rest of y'all?

Note: I've been going with SAC'D (Shark Attack Contract Dynasty) as a working league name. It's grown on me quite a bit.

Re: Sample Scoring (see links)
 

How about we shorten that to just SAC'D

Re: Sample Scoring (see links)
 

Fine, but what about the scoring?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Another comment on the scoring...

Should we not give some sort of credit for Interception and Fumble return yards (they are tracked)?

Maybe something like 0.05/yard (1/2 of what an offensive player gets per yard)

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I wouldn't be opposed

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Here's a link showing my 2nd scoring proposal with the additional inclusion of interception and fumble recovery return yards:

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

We also should define whether or not the IDP's get credit for offensive scoring (i.e. trick plays, goaline plunges and whatnot). I'd say yes, the same as the IOP would get.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I will weigh in on the scoring issue a bit later. However, on the league name I was wondering if there might be someway to incoprporate Pat Tillman into this. Since he was defensive player and this is an IDP league I thought maybe in the name of the league or else as one of the divisions??

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree with Mike. After looking at the scoring. Option 2 is better. Otherwise, the top DL performer (Julius Peppers) scored as much as Plaxico Burress who was #46 WR and below William Green (ranked 40th RB). And Donnie Edwards (#1 overall scorer) scored less than Jason Witten, Lee Suggs, Kurt Warner, & TJ Houskljhhatstydityfgxknbcdah.

I think we'll need another vote on this....

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I'm with on you the Pat Tillman thing. Dang, talk about a man walking the walk!

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I officially have no opinion on the defensive scoring.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Steve,

I created a 3rd option (post #35) which is my 2nd proposal but also includes points for interception and fumble recovery return yards (0.05 per year).

http://predsff.com/SAC'D2004DefensiveScoring3.htm

Think we should include that as an option in the poll?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I like this scoring method the best (using 2pts per 1/2 sack). Also adding the int and fumble return yardage should be an interesting addition.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Syste
 

i don't know about steve, but i think we should include this option as it would get my vote

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Rats. Missed that post.
Added now. Deleted the one person's vote, since there is a new option they may go for...sorry if you still wanted option 2...please just vote for it again.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

It was my vote, I edited the poll, all is good.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I voted 2, but am fine with 3. Although I think tackle pts may be a bit high (would prefer 1.5 & either .75 or .5 for an assist) but can live with it.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree, in general with you, Keepers. However, when you compare the scoring to that of IOP, IDP would be ridiculously low otherwise.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

How would the IOP get points for a defensive play?

I think this needs clarification. It would go both ways, true? If Sapp or Vrabel catches a TD as a TE, does he get the points as technically he would be in a line up as DE/LB or something of the like. Or if Troy Brown catches an INT, do you get the points if he is your WR #3?

I am not sure this should be true, and I have admittedly not scoured the leagelese of the current Frenzy Rules to see if this is addressed. It's one thing if Brees catches a pass from Tomlinson and we give Brees the recept and the yards, but it's another to cross to the other side of the field. Any recommendations since you have probably addressed this in one respect? :?

EDIT: Also, I am down with yardage for returns option (#3), etc, as long as it does not overload one position with too many points. mp

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I think if we are going to be as detailed with the scoring as we are, we need to allow offensive players to get D points, and D player to get O points. The main offensive player getting D points I can think of is the Keenan McCardell situation. In my mind, if we are doing this as thorough as possible, Keenen needs to have gotten points for that play (let me know if you aren't aware of the play I'm talking about, but if someone doesn't know, we need to reconsider the use of Shark in the league name).

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

You sure you don't mean Troy Brown? Whose the shark?;)

And yes, the scoring should work for both sides IMO.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Ah hem. No. I mean Keenan McCardell and the infamous "defensive" touchdown he scored last year on the double fumble play (I think it was Monday night, might have been a Sunday night game). It threw most leagues into a tizzy since most scoring systems didn't know how to handle it. Even though McCardell scored the TDs, the NFL ruled it a defensive TD (which IMHO was assine), as TB fubled, their opponent recovered, and fumbled back while returning the fuble. Keenan picks it up and scores.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

Guess I'm not the shark lol... I faintly remember the playm but not much controversy from it, at least not in my leagues.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30)
 

I remember this play... they called.. that once the 1st fumble was recovered that the Offense became the defence and they(the new D) caused the next fumble (ala McKardell) and called it a Defensive TD... I guess Mckardell became a DB..
A very rare situation... not the norm..

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I think we should allow for the Vrabel/Sapp offensive TD, etc. And the Troy Brown (and rare McCardell) Defensive play as well. if the system picks up the stats, then it would be assessed correctly. ie: Mike Vrabel gets 2 tackles, 1/2 sack, pass deflected and 1 offensive TD. I don't have the scoring here, but you get the idea.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I agree since it looks like we are giving points for plays on both sides of the ball and some players will play on both sides of the ball (not that there's anything wrong with that) as well as special teams I think it makes sense.

Do we say anywhere in the rules (I am pretty sure we do) that the NFL (or whoever) is the stats provider of record?

Basically, however they record it (including blocked kicks that are noted as blocked in the play by play record but not on the stats sheet) is how we score it.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I believe Mike (Preds) has the system to check if everything we want can be tracked, scored, etc. Mikey, is that right?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

Uh oh, not the blocked kick issue again.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

I think we should probably designate FFLM as the official keeper of stats, they've been VERY reliable over the years.

Stats for IOP/IDP's even in in reversed roles are generally tracked well within FFLM, so scoring both sides of the ball for any player shouldn't be an issue.

As for tracking the stats, there are only 2 stats I'm concerned about, 1 moreso than the other.

I'm somewhat concerned that the Fumble Recovery yards are credited to the player (not the team), I'm gonna have to check with Mike Hall on that. Intereception return yards can be tracked by the player, so that's not an issue.

The bigger issue is the negative stats for negative yards (ex. a WR runs a reverse for -9 yards, and it's his only rushing play of the day, we want him to get -.9 for the negative yards). I haven't figured out a way to accomodate this yet, and will post at FFLM's boards to see if this is possible.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

valid concerns.
will you let us know what you find out?

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Syste
 

Well, after just now checking the FFLM boards, I think I have a solution on the negative yardage, I'll test it in a bit.

I posted on the Fumble Recovery Return yardage. I'll let you know what I find out.

Re: Sample IDP Scoring (See Links in Post #30 to see sample of Proposed Scoring Systems)
 

OK, I've tested the negative yardage solution and it works. So no issue there.

I'll let you know when I get an answer on the fumble recovery yards.