Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

On May 13th MFL changed the lineup designation of a lot of DL and LB’s.
Check your rosters and make adjustments as needed.

Surprise!!!

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

#Wow WOW!

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

The question is....
What is the source of truth for Player Positions.
According to the Rules, the NFL Roster is the source, so would we need to correct MFL?
6G. Starting Position

Players can only be inserted into a starting line-up at a position for which they are listed on their NFL teams depth chart.

How does MFL positions get updated?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Here are a couple threads we discussed this. At one point we said we were using Rotoworld Depth Charts, since MFL did, but then they changed what they use
http://predsff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26959
http://www.predsff.com/forums/showth...light=position

Since its more work for me to change MFL, I would prefer we just go with what MFL has them listed as, at least prior to the start of the season, as MFL will change it until the season starts. Once season starts, if a player changes positions, then that will not be updated, and it is up to me to manually change it.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

So, even if MFL has the position possibly stated incorrect, we will wait for the end of the offseason to make correction on MFL.
Example Danielle Hunter Min is listed as LB on MFL (and Fantasy Sharks), but Rotoworld, NFL.com, ESPN.com, and his previous year show him as DE.

I'm good with waiting, but when the season starts, where do we look to the accurate position, if we need/want an update on a position.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

So it looks like MFL may still be using Fantasy Sharks for player positions. I'll see if I can get an answer from them on how they determine player positions

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Well...I registered for Fantasy Sharks and tried to post a message in forums...but it won't let me post a message. It let's me fill out message and click on button to post, but then I don't see the post. Maybe if someone here can reach out to MFL we can get a response?

Here's message I was trying to post. Feel free to improve upon it.

Multiple DL to LB Position Changes Reflected on MFL

We are noticing multiple position changes on MFL especially DL to LB. Does anyone know the reasoning behind these changes? Are they purely speculation at this point (e.g. Danielle Hunter moving to LB due to expected 3-4 scheme change)? Is there a specific date prior to start of 2022 season that we can expect these position changes to be set in stone for MFL (after which we'd have to manually make any MFL position changes in-season like with Cordarrelle Patterson - WR to RB - last season)? Thank you in advance for any insight.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I'll do it Pat, and post reply here.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

The whole DE / LB / Edge debate is getting ridiculous.

I see #RHP is showing DE Jaelen Phillips and DE K'lavon Chaisson as LB's now with these changes. They were drafted as defensive line Edge Rushers, not LB, and have far less value as a LB IMO (heck they barely have DL value as is).

I'm wondering if we should consider following the Edge trend that most NFL teams have adopted (at least in terms of what how they draft) and change things up to combine DE and OLB's as new Edge position and set that position to have 1 starter. DL would consist only of interior DTs, of which we'd start 1. LB would be changed to include WLB, SLB and MLB of which we would start 2, and finally our DBs would remain as is and we'd start 2.

Still starting 6 defensive players, but combining DE and OLB into the Edge position, and removing OLBs (who generally play in 3-4 systems) from the LB position and have LB consisting only of players designated as WLB, ILB, and WLB's?

Defensive Lineups would be: 1 DT, 1 Edge, 2 ILB, 2DB.

Of course then there are also hybrid DB/LB players as well, but they're not as significant an issue as the whole DE/LB/Edge issue.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Interesting but why start 12 IDPs? We'd have to significantly expand our IDP roster spots and probably cap. Why not stick with currently starting 6 IDPs? Maybe 1 DT, 1 Edge, 2 LB and 2 DB?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Oops, I was thinking about how we have a total of 12 Defensive players and forgetting we only start 6. Yes 1 DL, 1 Edge, 2 ILB, 2 DB would be best.

FYI I edited my original post as by no means was I thinking of doubling the starting lineups!

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

no, we start 2 of each - always have since beginning...12 is the max active IDP

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Getting old is a bitch, ain't it? #Tear

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Question is...would MFL/FantasySharks be able to even support this? I see they separate DE and DT, but they don't separate LB as far as I can see.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Not sure if MFL can handle it unless we manually set the positions each year based on NFL depth charts, which could be a PITA.

An alternative we could do is use flex lineups and let MFL define positions as is and start 1 DL, 2 LB, 2DB and 1 LB/DB flex? That said, this may make LB's more valuable which isn't ideal.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

No doubt!

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Since I am new to IDP and not sure of IDP player values (as is evident from some of my offseason moves), I am pretty much good with whatever you old timers decide.

But as we move through RFA and into the draft in a couple weeks, it would be good to have some direction on how to build the defensive side of a team.

Do we
1) Put something out for a vote
2) Decide on a source of truth for positions
3) Let the League Committee lead us to the promise land with a wise decision

As mentioned, I'm good with whatever direction the old guys take us.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Pretty sure we decided to use NFL.com depth charts, as a guide. But we do not manually change positions until after the season starts...to use Mike's favorite term, kind of a Pita.

Let's see what MFL says about why the deluge of changes, then we can discuss this further if we want to change how we handle it.

I am in same boat with Maxx Crosby...did not notice they changed him to a LB...not sure I would have matched, but seeing Raiders depth chart, he is still listed as a DL...so who know WFT is going on....

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Here is MFL's response to Pat's question:
"Yes, see below for general guidance on this. We generally make position changes in the off-season about once a month based on anticipated formations for each NFL team. The last set of changes will be sometime in August, after which point you would have to manually change any players that you need or want to change for your league.

Thanks
Mike

This question is answered in our Help Center, which you can access from the "Help > Help Center" menu, in the "Players & Lineups" > "NFL Players" subcategory:

Why is a player listed at the wrong position? Or, what happens if a player changes the position he plays during the season?

Player positions are updated periodically during the preseason from the depth charts at FantasySharks.com. Once the regular season starts, we no longer make player position changes. Your league commissioner can change a player's position if needed by using the For Commissioners > Setup > Players and Rosters > Change Player Position option.

You can review the player position changes that have been made during the preseason on the "Help > What's New" menu item under the Player Position Changes link."

So I think we roll with it until the season starts? Not really sure what else we can do. Most of us seems to have been affected by this. Maybe new rules that if MFL changes player position in same off season as player was acquired, can cut said player free of charge?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Yeah, I think we have to roll with it until the season starts.

I do like the idea of cutting a player free of charge if acquired in off-season (RFA or UFA) and player changes position. What do others think?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Maybe cut at a discount, like 10%.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

#2ThumbsUp

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Still need to know what site we will sue to determine position.
Fantasy Sharks, Rotoworld, NFL.com, ESPN.com.

Burt indicated above that previously, NFL.com was the site to use.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

If the league is going to consider something like this, I think it should apply to drafted players too. The valuation for drafting a player as DB, LB and DL can have a significant impact if their position gets switched.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

This is a discussion on footballguys about this issue in IDP forum...

https://forums.footballguys.com/topi...true-position/

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Not sure what is meant by the above.
Drafted players can be cut without penalty if cut in same off-season.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Not if they've been active at some point.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

The True Position concept which is supposedly based on snap count makes sense. There is a link in that FBG discussion to a tool that will automatically update MFL.

FWIW, both of our DL that MFL is now calling LB were DE based on snapcount in 2021 according to the tool referenced in that FBG link.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I am fine with that, if someone wants to take ownership of running it, and letting me know which changes to make during the season.

Someone should probably create a poll or two to make sure the league is in agreement

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I'm also fine with allowing newly acquired players to be cut with no penalty due to MFL position change (they got me too).

I would also be in favor of the True Position concept based on snap counts. That seems both more accurate and fairer than MFL's arbitrary assignment of positions.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I thought we were talking cutting players before the season started in the season acquired?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

IMO if we're going to allow free cuts with position changes, it should apply to all players impacted, or none.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I was using this as reference

Don't like dropping a player at any point if a position changes

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

This quote got my attention:

In my other league a player retains the position he is drafted at for the duration of his contract length. If a player is not under contract or the draft occurs after a position change the position change takes affect. Basically if you are locked to a player he retains the position you chose him at.

Kind of a "grandfathered at" ... If you changed the drafted at to any of: drafted at, claimed, traded for, renegotiated or franchised and left burden on owner to verify ownership before MFL position change date then we could create a folder and list position changes to commissioner. The burden of proof would fall on individual owners instead of overextended commish. If UFA or RFA then date of compares to MFL date of change.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Now this makes reasonable sense to me, especially with IDP's.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

That would be my preference, but I am not completely opposed to any player...

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I would be good with this, as long as the manual labor does not get overwhelming.
I would vote for it, as long as it is the team owners responsibility to notify management of position change, and request it be changed back....

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

So the rule would something like,,
A player's position is locked to the position he is listed on NFL.COM at the time he is acquired (whether through draft, RFA, UFA, claimed, traded for, renegotiated, or franchised). His position will be locked for the duration of his contract. His position will update following a player's contract expiring and his being place on RFA or UFA or if his contract is renegotiated or if he is franchised. His position would update at the time a new contract is made following UFA or RFA or at the time of renegotiation or franchise.
If MFL changes the player's position, it is up to the team owner, or another league member to bring this to the attention of the commissioner. The commissioner and the league rules committee will not be responsible for monitoring player positions.
NOTE: This rule will apply to both negative and positive position changes marked by the MFL site or the player's team. A team cannot 'choose' to apply the rule or not apply the rule to a player.
Example: Cordarrelle Patterson was picked up as a WR in 2021 UFA and signed to 3 years. Atlanta changed his position to RB during the 2021 season. He would remain as a WR until the end of his 2021-2023 contract unless he is renegotiated. If renegotiated, his position would be updated at that time. If following is new contract as an RB, he is changed back to WR, he is locked in at RB until the end of that contract.

A little wordy, but I think I got the idea...
Also, from reading above, it looked like NFL.COM was the source of truth for the positions. If not, this will need to be defined. #Pirate

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

The real issue here is the classification of edge defenders. It seems that most of us consider edge defenders more DL and less LB. I'm really not in favor of locked in positions.

My preference would be more along lines of the true position, reclassifying edge defenders as DL, seeing if MFL can support edge defenders as a position, seeing if MFL can give commissioners option of classifying edge defenders as DL or LBs, monitoring your own team and reporting position changes, etc...over locked in positions.

As far as cutting, I'm good with what we do now, no cut for off-season (RFA/UFA) prior to contract declared, reduced 10% for any player after position change, or something along those lines.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I agree with Patrick.
I only typed up the rule to be sure I understood what was being proposed.
I would much rather see true position used and set at the start of the regular season (although the position should be locked in for the season), with the responsibility falling on everyone to monitor themselves.
Also, discounted penalty for players picked up and dropped during the same off-season, if position changes between acquired and drop.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I can ask MFL if they plan on adopting this as an option.. Unless they've already done it, I doubt it will be changed this year

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I've submitted new ticket to MFL.

Nudging around setups, not seeing any flexibility to use any other hybrid IDP position...just DE/DL or LB....

They allow flex positions on Offense (WR+TE or WR+RB+TE) - but nothing similar for IDPs

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

We can resolve the Edge position with the True Position edit that can be set to run automatically on MFL according to the post from FBG that John submitted. We just would have to come to agreement that whatever their logic/sources they use to define True Position are agreeable by our league. From what I read, I believe they use PFF as a source combined with snap by snap alignments to assign the position that most fits where the player actually lined up the most.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Hopefully, MFL will come back with something promising...if not for this season, but future ones. If not this season, then it looks like the True Position resolves most if not all Edge positions. At least it looks like it would be easier to make a few manual adjustments instead of a bunch of them.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

This was reply from MFL:
"We don't have any immediate plans to add an "Edge" type of position for the 2022 season. For now, leagues that want to create an Edge type of concept are using the "Change Player Position" option to create their own designations. They generally change LB's to DE's within their league to treat the DE position as the "Edge" when needed. That's probably the best option for this season if you want to create that type of setup."

So looks like 'True Position' is our option if we want to do this.
Someone want to put together a poll to use this option?
And who wants to take the task of figuring out how to use it, and take ownership, if passed?

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

Latest quote from footballguys link listed earlier in this thread:

This appears to be a quote from MFL!

We strongly recommend against using the site’s player positions for your league’s official positions

What???

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

More reason to try True Position out for this season I think

Or are you saying True Position is saying not to use their positions? Confused now. One thing is certain, MFL is not gelling with Edge players and where to position them.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I am saying True Position seems to be a better choice than MFL position reassignments.

Re: Notice MFL moved MANY, MANY DE’s to LB!!!
 

I've created a Poll to vote on using the True Position MFL Tool as the official source for assigning IDP positions. A majority vote is necessary for it to pass.