Players changing positions
 

So I was interested in finding out how MFL handles position changes for players like Jadeveon Clowney (LB to DL) and more recently Ty Montgomery (WR to RB). Here's how MFL addresses this question:

Can Ty Montgomery be listed as a RB instead of a WR?

Answer: Yes, the commissioner can use the For Commissioners > Setup > Players and Rosters > Change Player Position screen to change the position for any player as needed or desired for your league. After a player position is changed, the player will only receive fantasy points based on the scoring rules defined for his new position.

For some background on the player positions, there isn't any way to designate a player at a "dual position", so each player is listed within MFL at a single position. We use the Rotoworld.com Depth Charts as our official source for all player positions at the beginning of the season. Then after the season starts, we generally don't make site-wide position changes, so it is up to your league commissioner to decide how to handle any player position changes after the season starts.

Regardless of how Rotoworld.com has a player position listed, the commissioner can use the above Change Player Position option to over-ride any player's position.

In addition, if you wish to allow your owners to be able to change the player's position, you can enable the option "Allow owners to change the position of these players back and forth between the MyFantasyLeague.com default position and your custom position" on the Change Player Position screen. Then after that is done, the owners will be able to use the For Owners Change My Player Position option to adjust the position of their player each week as needed.

Source: http://www03.myfantasyleague.com/2016/support


So based off of that answer, it would be up to us on how we determine a position change. I have a few ideas that we could discuss for next season:

1. Allow owner to request change, but owner can only change that player's position once. Once changed the player remains at that position for the rest of the year.

2. Once more than 50% of games played (minimum 5 games) are played at the new position, we automatically change the player's position (or similar to first option - owner can request change)

3. Do nothing. Once player starts season at one position, he remains at that position for the remainder of the year.

Any other thoughts?

Re: Players changing positions
 

Based on the way the rules are written, the position has to be in line with the NFL teams depth chart. Montgomery was recently moved to RB by the Packers thus can only start as a RB. If he's officially moved back to WR he then can only be used as a WR. IMO it's a move that gets made whenever the NFL team officially makes the change with their depth charts.

Re: Players changing positions
 

And what if it's an RFA who's salary was determined based on the preseason position? Any mid-year increase/decreases?

Re: Players changing positions
 

I see no language about adjusting salary, just positions.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Language? I was just bringing it up as something to think about.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Good point. So that means that we need to change Ty Montgomery's position to RB. Something for Killer Bees to be aware of in Frenzy.

Re: Players changing positions
 

He is listed at WR on the Packers official depth chart.

http://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart.html

If I bring him up and he is changed on the Packers site to RB, it will kind of screw me since I'll never start him over Gurley or Zeke.

Hmmmmmm. Does our rulebook supersede the MFL site?

Re: Players changing positions
 

I think we go with Packers' depth chart.

Re: Players changing positions
 

NFL.com is noteworthy for not having accurate depth charts. I know we've always used MFL as the official position charts as far as I recall and they rely on Rotoworld which has Montgomery listed as both RB and WR. Footballguys now has him as RB.

I read a couple articles I'll have to dig up that said the Pack has moved him to RB and he's working with the RB coaches and players and not WRs now.

The issue is a player who gets the majority of snaps out of position is really no longer that original position.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Aaron Rodgers thinks he's a RB now and so does Vegas seeing as Fandual has moved him to RB. That's big money in play there on the position call.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvkDS5gWAAAaVCb.jpg

Re: Players changing positions
 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/10413/ty-montgomery

Rotoworld is listing Ty Montgomery as a RB. They have him on the depth chart as both RB and WR, but on the profile page list him as a RB. Frenzy uses MFL for official depth charts, MFL uses rotoworld, however doesn't process in-season changes. We should be going by rotoworld for in-season changes.

Re: Players changing positions
 

I agree

Re: Players changing positions
 

(Thumbs up)

Re: Players changing positions
 

Our rules states:

6F. Starting Position
Players can only be inserted into a starting line-up at a position for which they are listed on their NFL teams depth chart.

His NFL team is the Packers. Their depth chart is on their website. http://www.packers.com/team/depth-chart.html

Re: Players changing positions
 

I agree with Mike (Killer Bees) and Jim (Commish) that as rules presently state we use the teams depth charts (Ty Montgomery is WR). We can vote to change it in the future but not for the present ongoing 2016 week 8. Starting line ups should be adjusted accordingly.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Frenzy does not use NFL.com for depth charts or positions. NFL.com and team websites (which correlate with NFL.com) are often inaccurate and out of date. We've always used MFL for positions and they use rotoworld. MFL does not adjust positions in-season, they leave that to individual leagues. This it's our responsibility to make positional changes when they occur and it's logical that we go to MFL's source (rotoworld) to determine current roster positions.

The rules state you can't start a player out of position. According to Rototworld, MFL's source Montgomery is currently a RB and thus cannot be started as a WR. Doing so would create unfair positional advantage by allowing you to start 3 RBs instead of the max 2.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Why the change in opinion?

Our rulebook clearly states: "their NFL teams depth chart" yes?

The problem with doing it by any way expect our rule book is the subjectivity. I have him on a Yahoo league and he's listed at WR today. In fact, when you google "packers depth chart", the first FIVE things that come up are packers.com, espn.com, ourlads.com, foxsports.com, cbssports.com and they all have him as a WR.

With Cobb out today, who knows...he may be full time at WR?

Re: Players changing positions
 

Well... despite the almost uniform agreement about the way the Frenzy has operated using MFL depth charts (which is correct)... if our rules state NFL team's depth charts I'm leaning towards honoring that. Clearly that needs to be corrected. But for this week (remainder of he season?), we probably should allow it if the Pack still marks him as a WR.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Montgomery has lined up as a RB in the backfield over 70% of his snaps. He's clearly being utilized as a RB which is why respectable site has moved him to RB. Including the high stakes gambling like FanDual.

Frenzy has always used MFL. MFL has stated their source is Rotoworld. I think it's a mistake to allow a player to play out of position once it's become clear that he is being utiilzed at another and multiple sources including MFLs have made he position change.

Re: Players changing positions
 

I agree. But it looks like our rules state otherwise (at least in one place)... that's all I'm saying. But we need to close that loophole.

Re: Players changing positions
 

The rules state the teams depth chart in a generic manner. They don't specify a teams website, NFL.com or any other source. Team websites are inaccurate sources of depth charts which is why we've always used MFL for official position designations and depth charts and their source is rotoworld.

Let be honest here, the Bees want to take advantage of a clear in-season positional change that multiple sources agree on. Including the Packers HOF QB.

You've always been one to honor the intent of the rules as well as teams. Bees intent is to take advantage of a rare in-season positional change that will give him the ability to start 3 RBs each week which the rules do not allow for.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Commish....please make a final ruling by noon. Every other debate appears to go directly to the rule book. Being new to the league, I don't know if any rule has ever been modified mid season. From what I've seen, if there is something that needs to be addressed, it is voted on for next year.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Put it this way, nowhere do the rules specify the definition of a source for a teams depth chart, however, Frenzy historically has gone by MFL and their source rotoworld.

IMO ruling away from MFL/rotoworld as the source is inconsistent with the historical operations of the league.

Re: Players changing positions
 

As I said, the first 5 entries on google show ty as a WR. It can't be generic. It says "their teams depth chart". If the official packers depth chart isn't updated, the rule book should specify which of the 100 specific sites depth chart should be used

Re: Players changing positions
 

I am a HUGE intent of the rules (as opposed to letter of the rules) guy. It does appear that Montgomery has transitioned to RB. However, the NFL/MFL/Rotowirld depth chart issue isn't clear in our rules (though we NEED to clean that up immediately). I'm going to rule Montgomery is eligible to be played as a WR THIS WEEK. But I'll do more research by next week and may reverse this ruling for the remainder of the season. Thanks to both Mikes for presenting their cases.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Be honest, what is your intent for Montgomery? It's not for points as a WR where he has fewer than 30% of his snaps and little production. Your want his points out of the backfield as a RB where he's taken over 70% of his snaps but you want them credited as a WR as it gives you an advantage since he's playing out of his original position. Clearly you don't see the same value for him as a RB over your other RBS.

Again from a precedent standpoint, historically Frenzy has relied on MFL not team or NFL websites. MFL has stated they use rotoworld as their source, however, leave it up to leagues to make in-season adjustments. Rotoworld has Montgomery listed as a RB. Thus he should be moved to RB in Frenzy.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Sounds fair Commish. Thank you.

Mike - he caught more passes last week (10) then rushing attempts (9). The previous week he had 10 receptions and 3 rushing attempts.

To answer your question, my intent...after this weeks game are done, I will likely start Zeke and Gurley at RB for the remainder of the year. I would like Ty, who I drafted at WR to play WR if he can crack my weak WR starting lineup.

Clearly I don't see the same value for him as a RB over my other RBS. Who knows...maybe I will bench Gurley or trade Ty if he is actually changed on the Packers official website/depth chart.

Re: Players changing positions
 

He caught those passes out of the flat from the RB position. Over 70% of his snaps have been lined up as a RB in the backfield. Those catches are no different from any other RB who makes outlet catches out of the backfield.

Re: Players changing positions
 

And again NFL.com and team websites are not and haven't been Frenzys source for depth charts and positions. Frenzy has historically used MFL as our determination and they use rototworld.

Team websites and NFL.com are historically inaccurate realtime sources and often delayed to adjustments. Same with google which takes time to populate changes.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Jim - I agree with the intent. Kind of like the Bible or the Constitution. Keep in mind if when Lacy comes back, how can we judge when it appears that he has transitioned back to full time WR?

Re: Players changing positions
 

Well with Ty Montgomery out this week we have a little more time to sort this out

Re: Players changing positions
 

After careful review this past week plus, it's clear to me that Montgomery is the #1 RB in Green Bay right now. So for Frenzy purposes that's where he can be played.

Re: Players changing positions
 

So are you going to manually adjust his position in MFL? Or is he available to start at RB already?

Re: Players changing positions
 

Great question. I'd have to look up how to manually adjust. If you know how to do that from the SAC'D league, go ahead!

Re: Players changing positions
 

I was just curious how you were going to handle it in frenzy.. We will probably follow suit in SAC'd... With new mfl login, I no longer have commish privs in frenzy

Re: Players changing positions
 

Done.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Is Rotoworld's dept charts going to be our source for in-season position changes?

Re: Players changing positions
 

This is the first time we've had to address this... and I've taken a "consult a variety of sources" approach. I think we need to hammer out what the "going forward rule" should be for the future.

Re: Players changing positions
 

That is what the rules state, so until we vote on rule change, I do not see any other way

Re: Players changing positions
 

Wow...kind of like a RP getting enough starts to be SP in baseball...I might believe Pred would be on the other side if Ty was on his team...maybe...I am all for letting Bees use a guy he faithfully owned in the slot he was drafted...this has to be a BEGINNING of season determination only...I don't see how you can unilaterally impose this stuff on an owner regardless of his intent...I would proudly stick him in there and take ALL those points...who is gonna monitor all those WR handoffs all season long???? No one griped when TEs lined up more in WR slots (Graham) so why this guy??? I say it is obviously an isolated incident so let it ride...You have to change his salary structure if he stays RB permanently at the BEGINNING of next season...which would have to allow Bee some sort of free relief if he so desired - like a free drop since he is no longer what he was drafted at...I have the same crap with Waller - he was a WR, then a TE, and now I don't even know...he is on PS so not a concern for now...good luck BEE, I am on your side here...RUN with it....lol

Re: Players changing positions
 

Waller was moved to tight end before the season started, so is listed as TE, and that is only spot you can start him at. MFL will not adjust positions in the middle of the season, so we have to do it manually. So if Monty stays at RB and is still listed there next year, MFL will adjust and Bees will not have option to start him at WR anymore. So the powers that be feel since he is listed at RB on the depth charts MFL uses, we should adjust accordingly per the rules and per MFL policies.

Re: Players changing positions
 

BTW, looking at RotoWorlds depth charts, Montgomery is listed at both WR AND RB. So how to handle that one?

Re: Players changing positions
 

MFL should fix this with rotoworld since they are partners and we are a MFL customer. This isn't working for us.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Dude had like 12 points this past week...are we really concerned that this is some unfair advantage???

Re: Players changing positions
 

The outcome (fantasy points of Montgomery) is irrelevant. It's the precedent. We'll get it figured out in the rules in the offseason. Sorry that you're the "poster child" of this very, very, very rare situation in our league. Nothing personal, of course.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Indeed it does. So much for clarification on the issue. What now? Makes me lean more toward keeping him at his original position of WR.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Rotoworld lists Montgomery as a RB on his profile page. Yes depth charts have him under both RB and WR, but the profile page of Montgomery shows RB on Rotoworld.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/10413/ty-montgomery

Rotoworld also lists Montgomry as RB when you do a player search

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...ntgomer&sport=

Re: Players changing positions
 

It was just a point...I get this is the season to suppress others...esp dissenting opinions...do what you want...until I get to vote on something...THIS IS A MOVEMENT and the people will take it back...:dammit:

Re: Players changing positions
 

:lmao:

:agree:

Re: Players changing positions
 

With all the drama with me not being able to use his as I intended, would I be able to put him back on my PS? I would obviously not have brought him up to play RB.

Re: Players changing positions
 

not for nothing but when you brought him up you were allowed to use him as a WR that week with the input from Jim that he may change the position after further research the following week. You accepted that and didn't ask then to demote without the cb demotion penalty as you wanted to use him as a WR that week.

It was AFTER that decision was made that he came up unable to play on gameday. IMO if you wanted the ability to demote him without the cb penalty it should have been at the time of the decision, not a couple weeks later.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Did I kick your dog or something?

Yes, for nothing. I have never played him and now that he is moved to RB I wont all season. If he was WR, I would have played him last week and likely this week and more.

Re: Players changing positions
 

Right but you're asking to make a change without the regular demotion penalty 2 weeks AFTER the fact, now that he doesn't fit your needs. You were allowed to use him as a WR the week you promoted him with the caveat from Jim that he may adjust his decision for future weeks after further research. You accepted that and had every intention of starting him that week as a WR as Jim allowed until the Packers made him inactive that week just before gametime due to an injury.

Now 2 weeks later since he's no longer useful to you at the position he's currently playing at, you're asking to demote him without penalty as if nothing ever happened and he never spent time on your active roster. You made an effort to gain an edge for a player out of position and it backfired, not due to Jim's ruling that week, but due to injury. You can't have it both ways... at least IMO.

Re: Players changing positions
 

:laugh::lmao:

I run into Charlie Fog
Blacked my eye and he kicked my dog
My doggie turned to me and he said
Let's head back to Tennessee Jed

Re: Players changing positions
 

Okay, so here's the timeline...
10/30 TY was activated from the TS for WEEK 8... we had a big discussion, and it was agreed that he could be used as a WR for this week, but I'd revisit the designation the following week. He didn't play that weekend, and the Killer Bees chose to bench him.
11/6 - WEEK 9... I ruled that Montgomery should be a RB at this point in our season, based on how GB is using him. Bees chose not to start him as a RB.
11/13 - WEEK 10... if you want to demote him back to TS, it would be a 2 week salary bump of 50cbs. Still quite minimal, if you ask me. And by doing this, he could be redesigned later in this season (or the off season) back to a WR. In fact, I'd be shocked if GB doesn't bring in other RB help this offseason.

So... that seems like the wisest move right now, as long as you have "no intentions" of starting him as a RB.

Re: Players changing positions
 

After promoting a player from PS, he becomes PS ineligible. He is only eligible to be demoted to the TS.

Re: Players changing positions
 

True. I assumed he came from TS.

Re: Players changing positions
 

So... the Head Coach even says he's not a WR.

Re: Players changing positions
 

His salary is based on WR status...

Re: Players changing positions
 

4th rounders all have the same salary.