INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

250

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

Isn't Lang a LB?

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

Yes, LB.

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

is that a valid strategy of mislabeling the position.

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

That's what I was wondering. I wouldn't assume Phily would try that as a tactic, more an oversight. But I guess if preds is going to flag me for putting in a minimum bid of 1.0 on a player, when we all know I meant 100, thus have to resubmit and waiting another 24 hours, maybe same principal should be applied to something like this?

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

It's happened twice today, so it might be nice to talk it over. I know Matt and know he wouldn't do it on purpose, but something should be discussed. I try to look at all bids, but some of the strategy can come into play.

Re: DL Kenard Lang (CLE) - SOLD for 250 to Gunslingers
 

In fairness to Matt, I thought Lang was a DL as well. Heck I've had him on teams the last 2 seasons as a DL.

Just now read that Cleveland is converting him to LB.

All that being said, I think Burt has a point, if you mislabel it, or misbid, the auction is invalid. Thus, this auction is VOID and has to be resubmitted.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I have to strongly disagree here. I read that there was talk of him learning the LB position so he could play both up at LB and down at DE (depending on the situation).

I know we had discussions before about what determines a players position and I thought we decided that it was NFL.com. Since I was not quite sure how to label him that is where I went, http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/4704.

Just because he may switch positions I am not sure that it is fair to try and revoke a bid that has passed the 24 hour limit since this could easily have been discussed then.

Also, for future reference we may want to put something in the rules to say what will determine the players position for our purposes.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I'm not sure we want to invalidate this bid. Isn't this like prosecuting after the law has changed?

If someone really wanted Lang, were they really disuaded by the fact that he was DL, not LB? Again, I have 2 DL's already, so I am basically avoiding most of them, but I would not have bid on Lang either way and would have researched before it was even putting one out there. This needs to be reevaluated for this player, but going forward I would have not problem with it. Of course the bid on the Giants DB will have to he revoked as well if we accept this one.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

What Giants DB? If there's another mislabel it needs to be voided as well IMO.

I think we should be consistent. Burt had to restart the one auction for starting with an inaccurate bid, same goes for these players. Thus it shouls start from scratch as a valid bid IMO.

Personally, if I see a LB selling for less than 300, I'm taking a MUCH CLOSER look than I would for a DL, so IMO, yes, it does matter.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

FYI, the Cleveland Browns own website lists Lang as a LB, as does FBG, and Ourlads. That's enough proof to me that they're not just considering a switch, but have already made it. I stand by voiding the bid. Big difference IMO between DL and LB value.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Well, either way (I don't need a 6th LB so if we are calling him a LB I am would prefer not to have him on my roster at this time) I still think there are two issues that need to be addressed.

One, the bid was up for 24 hours and no one raised an issue then so I think we need to have some sort of limitation on this sort of thing. Two, I think we need to have one place that we rely on. I don't have access to FBG's so I would prefer it not be that but if that is the clearest way to do it that is fine with me. Also, what if they switched his position to LB tomorrow would we still want to go back and void this bid. What about if they changed it to LB in a month or two? What is the limit?

Okay, that might be more than 2 issues but I think that they are pretty related?

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I thought NFL.com is the source for player positions. If that is true it does not matter what the Browns website list him at IMO. If it isn't true I woiuld push VERY hard for this to be made true.

I can't see voiding the auction since at NFL.com they list him as a DL. Freedom was not doing this trying to confuse anyone.

The other mislabled was gibrel(sp?). I started him out at the wrong position but it has since been fixed and has been bid on multiple times. The auction has not ended and is a different situation. To avoid any having the auction voided I put a fresh bid on him (111cbs) when I fixed the position so it could just be considered that I started the auction at 111 with him at the right position.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I looked in the rules and they do state that the official source is each teams depth chart/player list

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

NFL.com is quite possible the LEAST reliable source of info. They rarely update their site, and are often way out of date on current events.

I feel you need to use multiple sources, official team sites, ourlads.com, footballguys.com, etc. to gain a consensus on positions.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I would think NFL.com would be the end all, be all of determining position. Is there nothing in the rules on this? I would think it would need to be if not.

As for Gibril, you are correct, he hasn't sold yet and that one worked itself out. Good example of catching the problem if an owner makes a mistake/tries to "get one over on us."

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I think the official team sites themselves should be enough. I don't use footballguys or ourlads, and don't see how they can be "official" considering they probably aren't directly linked to the official NFL teams themselves. 2cents

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

nice investigative reporting :skippy

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I apologize if the team site was supposed to be the final word. I looked through the rules (I had downloaded a copy a while ago) and did not see anything that covered it, but I thought from our conversations that it was the NFL.com site. The other issue is we still need one source (IMO) and we need to have some sort of time limit on position changes. If Lang was a DE today on the Browns site and then tomorrow moved to LB would we want to void this bid? What about if his position changes in training camp (a month or more after the auction closed)?

Again, I am fine without him in this case if he is a LB (and it seems clear that is how he is being considered) but these issues should be addressed for future reference (IMO).

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Not to split hairs, but what site do we pull that info from? Doesn't the team and the NFL site both have them. I think we need an executive ruling on this one, if what Preds says is true, the NFL site would not be the source, the team site would be.

Also, getting a consensus would not help, what if they are different. How would we then decide?

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Good point. I don't remember anything stating what the official site was to determine players position, so if this was it, we should stand by it. Do you have a reference to this discussion Freedom? This may also come into play during the season, and what constitutes being able to use a player at a position; i.e. if he plays one game at LB, then switches back to DL, does he qualify for both?

I would have mentioned something earlier, but didn't notice it until looking through my lists of which LB's I might want to taget, and noticed his name there.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Again, NFL.com is NOT RELIABLE as a source of info. The team sites themselves are generally better, but not all teams keep there websites current and accurate. There is a big variance between accuracy from one teams site to the next.

The reality is, there is NO SINGLE SOURCE that is official AND accurate. Hate to break it to you all, but thats a fact.

For stats, I thought we had discussed FFLM as the official stats provider. As for positions, I say we stick with team websites, UNLESS one can point to two or more reliable sources that show the team website to be inaccurate.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Hate to do it, but I agree with Skippy. Everyone has access to NFL.com. I do not have access to FBG either and didn't even know the other web site you mentioned. Bottom line, we need one web link and I think NFL.com is best option...isn't mentioned that's the site in rules or is that CDL?

I somewhat follow the Browns (since they are a rival of the Steelers) and I really thought Lang was a DL (just like most others).

Whether someone bid on him or not, I'm not sure it will matter much. Bottom line, was Matt trying to pull a fast one on us or not? If he was, and I would take him as being honest with us, then, yes, it should be voided. If no, and he heard rumors, but nothing in stone, I say let it stand. This league is about intent - if he meant to find a loophole, then no-no.

This will be something we need to discuss. What do we do if DL switches to LB, vice versa (or DB/LB, etc)?

let me work on this one. I'd like to see what others think

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Sounds like a good idea. Team sites used upon initial bidding. If you disagree and can find two or more reliable sources, rules committee would determine position.

As far as in-season position changes, I think we should adjust with the official NFL team. If you have a LB who becomes a DL, your team will need to make any necessary adjustments for the position change (player values would not change). In order to have time should you need to acquire a FA LB to start (only have two LBs and one changes position), the week following the current week in which the NFL team change is made, your team position change will be made (so for the current week, even though the LB may switch to DL, you could still use him as an LB for the current week). Did I confuse you yet?

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I don't think we should spend a lot of time on this, since I really don't think it happens all that much. It isn't like baseball where you have utility players who might play at 5 different positions. But we do need to come to some consensus on which site or sites we use, not only to determine position for auction purposes, but also for roster position qualification. I for one am not even sure where to go to find official team pages. I thought they were just basically an extention of either NFL.com or ESPN. I would be ok with Ourlads, who seems to keep things pretty current.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

What if we're talking about a player on a rookie contract. If you draft a DL who is converted to a LB, is his base contract still the DL scale contract?

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

I would think it depends on when the switch happens: Prior to the season, no the player would switch cap-wise to what new position is; if during the season, I think he stays as he initially was.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

The one thing I would have a problem with is that we bought a player based on a certain position and maybe the switch makes him less valuable. If we are forced to use him at the new position only, then that could be significant to our salary cap and may force a cut to get to required minimums ( I think there are going to be a few teams that only carry minimums at IDP positions). Maybe give each team a one time half cap hit for a position change, or something to lessen the pain?

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Agreed.

Re: INVALID AUCTION (MISLABELED THE POSITION) - LB Kenard Lang (CLE)
 

Why does it matter pre-season vs in season?

Just wanting to make sure there is some logic to it vs. just thinking we need some arbitrary deciding line.